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Post by redwolf on Nov 11, 2008 12:17:12 GMT -6
Republican Compares Obama to HitlerBy BEN EVANS, AP WASHINGTON (Nov. 11) - A Republican congressman from Georgia said Monday he fears that President-elect Obama will establish a Gestapo-like security force to impose a Marxist dictatorship.news.aol.com/main/obama-presidency/article/republican-warns-of-obama-dictatorship/243817?icid=100214839x1213203027x1200788836This election has really brought them out of the woodwork. Since when is a progressive tax structure, like the one we had under Clinton, considered Socialism? This shows how far to the right the dialogue has shifted. For the record, I don't care for far-left extremism either.
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Post by Cactus Jack on Nov 21, 2008 12:49:17 GMT -6
Don't kno what else you'd call, Bark OBama's “national civilian security force” which he wants in place to rival the U.S. military and be made a mandatory “community service” for all Americans, especially children. Sure sounds like the formation of Adolf's "Kinder Jungen" which fueled the ranks of his blackshirted SS-corps. With his supporters at ACORN and the New Black Panther Party waiting in the wings, he may be preparing to unleash a new meaning to his reformation of "reverse discrimination" on everybody who doesn't fall in lockstep to his grandiose ideologies -- something Der Fuhrer did masterfully in the Fatherland 75-years ago.
Only problem is, he's gonna find disarming loyal, conservative Americans like me a very difficult, formidable task. Us Veterans swore to protect and defend our Constitution against all threats, foreign and domestic, which is what most of us (along with the 57-million who didn't vote for BHO on Nov 4th) are preparing to do if his promised changes include those liberal, progressive, marxist-socialist ideals.
Oh yeah, 'n somebody needs to inform him: Down Here in Texas, we pack guns and don't cotton well to carpetbaggers interloping on our sovereign soil with radical, Hitlerisque, Blue State utopianism.
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Post by redwolf on Nov 21, 2008 20:52:13 GMT -6
Thank you for helping me make my point, txdirtfarmer.
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Post by graybeard on Nov 22, 2008 0:08:33 GMT -6
"Us Veterans swore to protect and defend our Constitution against all threats, foreign and domestic, ..." What have you "Us Veterans" done the last 8 years to defend our Constitution against the Draft Dodger who called it "A Goddamned piece of paper"? Obama is likely to do a good job defending our Constitution, since he taught Constitutional Law at the U. of Chicago. www.AWOLbush.comGB, US Veteran, draftee, 1965-7
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Post by proletariat on Nov 22, 2008 6:53:37 GMT -6
Yes, the same experience that motivated him to support the Patriot Acts and FISA legislation, and bail out. Yes, the bail out was a constitutional power grab.
While Obama's policies have done nothing for me as of late, I do give him kudos thus far for choosing competence in his cabinet. I don't think its necessarily a conservative or liberal trait, but nice to have anyway.
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Post by graybeard on Nov 22, 2008 8:49:07 GMT -6
If you believe Ronnie"s "Government is the problem," you prove it by appointing your dumbest friends to head all agencies, like we have now. I can't think of one Bu$h appointee who has been honest and competent.
GB
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Post by Cactus Jack on Nov 24, 2008 7:27:25 GMT -6
"Us Veterans swore to protect and defend our Constitution against all threats, foreign and domestic, ..." What have you "Us Veterans" done the last 8 years to defend our Constitution against the Draft Dodger who called it "A Goddamned piece of paper"? Actually GB, you've confused Prez #43 with Prez #42. William (Bill) Jefferson Blythe Clinton was the draft dodger. George Walker Bush served in the Tx Nat'l Guard (Air Force wing), and tho he didn't see action in Vietnam (the Republic of), he served in a proud unit -- the same unit which has made multiple tours in both Afghanistan 'n Iraq since 2002 -- and the one I served with for three years as the Southeast Regional Deputy Commander, following my 30.5 year military service career with the USArmy. I was in uniform under the draft dodger (#42) and watched as he and leading Donkeycrats in Congress dismantled its fighting capability on the world stage with base closings, troop reductions, and defense system curtailments while deploying forces around the world in a whole host of hot spots such as East Timor and Kosovo, plus the Somolia aid mission B.C inherited from Prez #41 of which his grandiose ideas cost the lives of 17 Rangers (dramatized by the film "Blackhawk Down"). Rather than ask me what "us veterans" have done the last eight years, ask me what "us veterans" (who have sworn the oath of allegiance to the Constitution) are willing to do to keep a repeat (and worse) from happening under Prez #44?
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Post by xtra on Nov 24, 2008 22:50:36 GMT -6
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Post by graybeard on Nov 25, 2008 0:53:04 GMT -6
The 2nd Amendment is still open to interpretation. The NRA is hardly a disinterested party.
AwolBu$h dodged the draft by getting into that country club unit of the TX NG, which guaranteed he wouldn't go to 'Nam. He didn't even finish that meager obligation.
Cheney dodged the draft for the final time by having a child, exactly what I chose not to do slightly prior to that. I'm sure he's still proud of that little draft dodge daughter.
9/2/2005
Iraq-depleted, desperate Guard calling back those with unfulfilled commitments for hurricane emergency.
EWM - (September 2, 2005) A White House already reeling from a "God awful" federal response to Hurricane Katrina, chaos in Iraq, and plummeting poll numbers received another blow today when President Bush was ordered to report to Montgomery, Alabama immediately to resume his incomplete National Guard service.
The Guard, facing a crisis of its own due to over-deployment and under-enlistment is scouring its records to identify former guardsmen with dubious service histories so they can be pressed back into duty. The move was necessitated when the guard was asked to deploy massive aid to hurricane-stricken regions and discovered that the "cupboard was bare."
Pentagon computer experts identified prospects by doing a Google search on the terms, "National Guard," "skipped requirements," "accomplished nothing" and "left early." The President's name was said to be the first on the search results.
Those recalled will receive certified letters today notifying them to report immediately to the units from which they bailed and will be enrolled into "Slacker Battalions." Although Bush was identified as owing service to units in both Alabama and Texas, Alabama received his recall rights after losing a coin flip.
U.S. National Guard commander Brigadier General Morley Brassbuttons put an optimistic spin on prospects that the Slacker Battalions will make a contribution this time around. "Given the less than stellar records of the recalled, our expectations are pretty low. That said, we believe the Slacker Battalions can handle menial but necessary chores such as emptying trash receptacles, washing dishes and scrubbing lavatories.
"But this time there will be no deferments, transfers to work on political campaigns, or early-outs to attend MBA school. As an incentive to comply we've arranged for violators to be shipped to Abu Ghraib prison wearing nothing but a garbage bag."
For his part, the President is said to be relieved to get a break from the "hard work" of being President, but was crestfallen when told that this time he will not make his entrance in a flight suit under a "Mission Accomplished" banner.
Meanwhile, as a contingency, Karl Rove is checking General Brassbuttons' genealogy chart to find relatives with sensitive secrets that could be leaked to the media.
The issue was not discussed at this morning's press gaggle as White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan showed up wearing earplugs, gagged and blindfolded.
Editor's Note: Please excuse the Muse for reporting fantasy. As a Fairly Unbalanced Journalist, it is his calling.
Return to latest entry
Copyright © Eyewitness Muse, All Rights Reserved
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Post by Cactus Jack on Nov 25, 2008 11:44:40 GMT -6
Typical marxist-socialist response, GB. You intro Bush as the topic of discussion but when you can't make the sale you pull the switcharoo, and throw Cheney into the mix.
Okay, since you opened the book on who served and who didn't and who evaded the draft and who did not, lets SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT!
First, if you knew anything about the Draft and the Vietnam War as it pertains to who was subject to induction and who wasn't -- which apparently you don't -- anybody born before 1945 who did not volunteer for service during the Vietnam era was exempt from the first draft lottery, held on December 1st, 1969. As such, Dick Cheney who was born on 30 January 1941 was not subject to that or any subsequent draft. Therefore, Mr. Smartypants, he is not by any stretch of the imagination (even your convuluted one) a draft dodger.
With that out of the way, let's look at some of the many influential guys of that day, and see what their draft status was in each of the Draft Lotteries held between 1969-1975 when the armed forces switched over to "all volunteer status". According to the Selective Service, persons with numbers less than lottery #122 would be drafted; those with #123-183 would likely be drafted; those with #184-244 might be drafted; those with #245-366 would likely not be drafted. Hence:
Among your dreaded Republicans: Tom Ridge: did not serve. Entered draft but recieved #245 Andy Card: did not serve. Draft #65 - should have been drafted Dennis Hastert: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 Tom Delay: did not serve. Entered draft but received #312 Bill Frist: did not serve. Was in medical school-deferred Steve Forbes: did not serve. Entered draft but recieved #190 Trent Lott: did not serve. Entered draft but received #234. John Ashcroft: did not serve. Entered draft but received #197 Jeb Bush: did not serve. Draft #159 - should have been drafted Karl Rove: did not serve. Entered draft, received #84 - should have been drafted Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 Newt Gingrich: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 George W. Bush: National Guard. If had entered draft, would have received #327 which contributed to his leaving Nat'l Guard prior to fulfilling commitment. Phil Gramm: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 JC Watts: did not serve. Draft had been replaced by all volunteer army before J.C. turned 18 Jack Kemp: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 Dan Quayle: served with Indiana National Guard despite having Draft Lottery #210 Rudy Giuliani: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 George Pataki: did not serve. Entered draft but received #358 Spencer Abraham: did not serve. Entered draft, received #272
Now for your beloved Donkeycrats: Sandy Berger: did not serve. Draft #94 - should have been drafted David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72. Draft #110 - enlisted to avoid being drafted James Carville Jr.: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 Gary Condit: did not serve. Draft #62 - should have been drafted. Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72. Draft #43 - enlisted to avoid being drafted John Edwards (Kerry's 2004 running mate): did not serve; Draft #76 - should have been drafted. John Feingold: did not serve. Draft #77 - should have been drafted Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam in 20th Engineer Brigade. Draft #30; served as writer for Stars & Stripes Dennis Kucinich, #342 - Eligible but with high number Robert Reich: did not serve. Entered draft but received #358 Bill Richardson: did not serve. Draft #131 - should have been drafted Charles "Chuck" Schumer: did not serve. Draft #182 - should have been drafted Al Sharpton: did not serve. Entered draft but received #244 George Tenet: did not serve. Draft #101 - should have been drafted Al Franken: did not serve. Entered draft but received #250
Now for some of the notable media types: Paul Allen (Microsoft co-founder), #347 - Eligible but with high number Gary Bauer (political activiist), #276 - Eligible but with high number Carl Bernstein - Not subject to draft because born in/before 1945 Wolf Blitzer, #248 - Eligible but with high number Aaron Brown (CNN anchor), #282 - Eligible but with high number Pat Buchanan: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 Tucker Carlson: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he turned 18 Bob Costas: did not serve. Entered drafted but received #265 Howard Dean, #148 - Should have been drafted Lou Dobbs - Not subject to draft because born in/before 1945 Christopher Dodd - Not subject to draft because born in/before 1945 Steve Doocy: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he was 18 Larry Flynt - Not subject to draft because born in/before 1945 Tommy Franks (retired Army general) - Not subject to draft because born in/before 1945; volunteered Greg Gumbel, #40 - Should have been drafted Chuck Hagel, #202 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Sean Hannity: did not serve. Draft replaced by volunteer military before he turned 18 Brit Hume - Not subject to draft because born in/before 1945 John Kasich, #295 - Eligible but with high number Jeffery Katzenberg, #70 - Should have been drafted Michael Kinsley: did not serve. Entered draft but received #317 Ted Koppel - Not subject to draft because born in/before 1945 Bill Kristol: did not serve. Draft #162 - should have been drafted Matt Lauer - Draft ended before he turned 18 Rush Limbaugh: did not serve. Entered draft but received #221 Chris Matthews: did not serve. Being born in '45 was subject to draft Kweisi Mfume, #196 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Dennis Miller: did not serve. Entered draft but received #294 Michael Moore - Draft ended before he turned 18 Bill O'Reilly: did not serve. Draft #71- should have been drafted Richard Parsons (Time magazine CEO), #81 - Should have been drafted Tim Russert: did not serve. Draft #35 - should have been drafted Michael Reagan - Not subject to draft because born in/before 1945 Ralph Reed: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he turned 18 Mitt Romney, #300 - Eligible but with high Kenneth Starr: did not serve. Draft #27 - should have been drafted Antonin Scalia: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 Clarence Thomas: did not serve. Draft #109 - should have been drafted Chris Wallace: served in Vietnam. Entered draft, received #72 - was drafted
Now for everybody's favorites - Celebs & Well Known People (including those quite vocal in politics): Gregg Allman, #105 - Should have been drafted Tim Allen: did not serve. Draft #69 - should have been drafted Richard Dean Anderson, #118 - Should have been drafted Desi Arnaz Jr, #188 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Armand Assante, #202 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Ed Begley Jr, #207 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Tom Berenger: did not serve. Entered draft but received #313 Jeff Bridges: did not serve. Draft #165 - should have been drafted Keith Carradine: did not serve. Draft #48 - should have been drafted Alice Cooper, #210 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Billy Crystal: did not serve. Entered draft but received #354 Ted Danson: did not serve. Draft #16 - should have been drafted Richard Dreyfuss: did not serve. Draft #99 - should have been drafted Fred Dryer, #327 - Eligible but with high number Patrick Duffy, #33 - Should have been drafted Erik Estrada, #166 - Should have been drafted Dan Fogelberg, #307 - Eligible but with high number Larry Gatlin, #298 - Eligible but with high number Richard Gere: did not serve. Draft #11 - should have been drafted. Mel Gibson: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he was 18 Robert Ginty, #127 - Should have been drafted Danny Glover: did not serve. Draft #153 - should have been drafted Jeff Goldblum, #117 - Should have been drafted John Goodman, #360 - Eligible but with high number Michael Gross, #27 - Should have been drafted Christorpher Guest, #214 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Arlo Guthrie, #284 - Eligible but with high number Daryl Hall, #237 - Eligible but with high number Mark Hamill, #149 - Should have been drafted Ed Harris, #281 - Eligible but with high number David Hasselhoff, #98 - Should have been drafted Don Henley, #153 - Should have been drafted PeeWee Herman, #352 - Eligible but with high number Ron Howard: did not serve. Entered draft but received #364 Tom Hulce, #198 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Bill Irwin, #14 - Should have been drafted Samuel L. Jackson: did not serve. Draft #70 - should have been drafted Don Johnson: did not serve. Entered draft but received #320 Tommy Lee Jones: did not serve. Draft #113 - should have been drafted David Keith - Draft ended before he turned 18 John Landis, #261 - Eligible but with high number Kenny Loggins, #306 - Eligible but with high number George Lucas: did not serve. Not subject to 1969 Draft Lottery because born before 1945 Barry Manilow, #73 - Should have been drafted Tim Matheson: did not serve. Draft #100 - should have been drafted Michael McKean, #288 - Eligible but with high number Gerald McRaney, #311 - Eligible but with high number John Mellencamp, #234 - Eligible but with high number Bill Murray: did not serve. Entered draft but received #204 Christopher Noth - Draft ended before he turned 18 John Oates, #149 - Should have been drafted Edward James Olmos: did not serve. Entered draft but received #236 Ed O'Neill: did not serve. Entered draft but received #346 Mickey O'Rouke: did not serve. Entered draft but received #284 Jameson Parker: did not serve. Draft #146 - should have been drafted Will Patton: did not serve. Draft #113 - should have been drafted Ron Perlman: did not serve. Draft #124 - should have been drafted Tom Petty, #192 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Joe Piscopo: did not serve. Draft #98 - should have been drafted Billy Preston, #263 - Eligible but with high number Dennis Quaid: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he was 18 Randy Quaid: did not serve. Entered draft but received #359 Rob Reiner, #139 - Should have been drafted Lionel Ritchie, #360 - Eligible but with high number Tim Robbins: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he was 18 Kurt Russell: did not serve. Draft #33 - should have been drafted Pat Sajak, #7 - Should have been drafted Garry Shandling, #99 - Should have been drafted Ron Silver, #350 - Eligible but with high number Jerry Springer, #152 - Should have been drafted Howard Stern - Draft ended before he turned 18 Parker Stevenson, #20 - Should have been drafted Patrick Swayze, #141 - Should have been drafted Steven Seagal: did not serve. Entered draft but received #218 Jerry Seinfeld: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he was 18 Steven Spielberg: did not serve. Draft #128 - should have been drafted Bruce Springsteen: did not serve. Draft #119 - should have been drafted Slyvester Stallone: did not serve. Entered draft but received #327 Oliver Stone: served in Vietnam. Entered draft, received #113 - was drafted John Tesh: did not serve. Entered draft but received #279 Phillip Michael Thomas, #357 - Eligible but with high number Richard Thomas: did not serve. Draft #69 - should have been drafted John Travolta: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he was 18 Steven Van Zandt, #9 - Should have been drafted Ben Vereen, #220 - Good chance wouldn't have been drafted Denzel Washington: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he was 18 Carl Weathers: did not serve. Entered draft, received #238 Peter Weller, #358 - Eligible but with high number Robin Williams: did not serve. Draft #27 - should have been drafted Treat Williams, #129 - Should have been drafted Bruce Willis: did not serve. All volunteer military replaced draft before he was 18 Demond Wilson, #138 - Should have been drafted Henry Winkler - Not subject to draft because born in/before 1945 James Woods: did not serve. Draft #90 - should have been drafted Robert Zemeckis, #178 - Should have been drafted
...this list is an ongoing project to identify everybody who is anybody. As you can see those who are the most vocal about the war, the military, Bush's military service or even Bill Clinton's are usually the ones who themselves should have served but didn't.
I'll even include yours truly on that list, under my user name: txdirtfarmer, #213 in '69 draft, but enlisted in 1966, served 3 tours in Vietnam. Okay bigmouth (graybeard), what was your lottery #? Did you serve? And if not, why not?
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Post by Cactus Jack on Nov 25, 2008 12:14:06 GMT -6
Oh yeah, let's not forget Bill Clinton, born 19 August 1946. Recalling the fact he had escaped to Oxford to avoid selective service induction orders out of Little Rock, Arkansas ..and.. then swore he would join the Arkansas Nat'l Guard but never showed up, receiving '69 Lottery Draft #311 which was a guarantee he probably would not have been drafted, reinforced his resolve to break a promise to enlist.
At least Bush, the younger, joined and at least served part of his commitment before dropping out with a Draft Lottery #327 that ensured he needed not complete said commitment.
Bill was such a chickens**t he wouldn't even join before quitting. Surprised?
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Post by graybeard on Nov 25, 2008 12:30:40 GMT -6
"First, if you knew anything about the Draft and the Vietnam War as it pertains to who was subject to induction and who wasn't -- which apparently you don't -- anybody born before 1945 who did not volunteer for service during the Vietnam era was exempt from the first draft lottery, held on December 1st, 1969. As such, Dick Cheney who was born on 30 January 1941 was not subject to that or any subsequent draft. Therefore, Mr. Smartypants, he is not by any stretch of the imagination (even your convuluted one) a draft dodger."
Wrong, wrong, wrong, Tex. Like me, Cheney had received college deferments. Deferments extended your draft age to 35. I was born in 1940, and was drafted at the end of 1965, at the age of 25 and 9 months. Like Cheney, I could have extended my deferment by fathering a child. I decided that was not reason to bring a child into the world. Cheney's daughter was born 9 months after the SSS ruled that married men without children were no longer exempted from the draft, a rule that had been in place since the fall of 1963.
Before the lottery, draftees were taken by age, oldest first, and it had been active since WWII. The reason they stopped drafting married men in late 1963 was the lack of need. I was married in Feb '63, and expecting to be drafted after Univ graduation in June.
Dunno if I'll bother to read the rest of your name calling, as it's no doubt gonna' be wrong, too.
GB
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Post by Cactus Jack on Nov 25, 2008 13:33:02 GMT -6
So what, I had a draft deferment when I entered college in '64. Without flunking out, I chose to surrender that deferment and enlist. Having a deferment isn't what this discussion is about. Don't mean nothing. The first nati'l Draft Lottery covered everybody born between 1946-1951, and was established to determine eligibility with/without deferments or special clauses.
Under those guidelines, the criteria was set on likelihood of men being drafted according to drawn numbers instead of the arbituary favoritism displayed at any number of small town selective service centers (aka draft boards) run often by bigoted good old boys which granted deferments or denied them according to discriminatory methods. The Draft Lottery was designed to make the whole system fairer, especially to the less affluent, under educated, and minorities.
Sooner or later, deferments expire. Then, when they do, as you stated, induction is based on age, so those younger born on that day go before them born years earlier, until the armed services rolls are filled. Still where one falls in the Draft Lottery defines possibility of being drafted or not. In that '69 Lottery, persons born before 1945 were exempt under this fairer plan.
Since you were drafted in '65, the '69 Draft Lottery did not take precedence. Your service obligation was still being conducted by the old system. You were drafted because your deferment changed from 2-S to probably 1-A (which means anytime) and depending upon where you were registered, plus how large the pool was of eligible draftees existed, all these determined who got drafted and who did not (under that old system).
You condemn Cheney for playing by the rules under the old system that you chose not to play by. That doesn't make him a draft dodger anymore than it did Senator Chris Dodd who did exactly the same thing that Dick Cheney did to keep from serving.
With the '69 Draft Lottery, the good old buddy draft board system changed to make it fairer. Most deferment were extended from the old system but were subject to periodic reviews as status changed or needs to fill the armed services ranks fluctuated.
Now, (I and everybody else sees the light) the TRUTH is out. The issue isn't about Cheney or Dodd or Bush or Bill Clinton or AlGore or Oliver Stone or even yourself or me. You can admit it, you simply hate Dick Cheney and/or George W. Bush. Military service or lack of same has nothing to do with. That's just an excuse to mask your partisan politics.
That's okay. Hate Cheney 'n Bush for whatever reason, just don't include military service into them because when you do, your selfish discriminations show through.
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Post by graybeard on Nov 25, 2008 22:17:20 GMT -6
Bu$h and Cheney were cowards.
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Post by xtra on Nov 27, 2008 1:07:50 GMT -6
grown men arguing about which party is criminal. lmao dont you know they both are.
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Post by kramer on Dec 19, 2008 17:58:22 GMT -6
The 2nd Amendment is still open to interpretation. Lets see, right after the country was formed, did government officials go around and confiscate the guns from people who weren't in a milita? No. Why? Because they intended for private citizens who aren't in a militia to keep and bear arms. This effectively ends all arguments over the 2nd amendment as far as I'm concerned.
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