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Post by blueneck on Jan 26, 2007 13:00:07 GMT -6
From Industry Week Midwest Manufacturing Large Part Of Mass Layoffs But number is improvement over last month.
Compiled By Adrienne Selko Jan. 25, 2007 -- During December, 390 mass layoffs occurred in the manufacturing sector according to a report released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics on Jan. 26. A mass layoff is defined as having at least 50 people from a single company filing for unemployment insurance. Both the number of layoffs and the number of initial claims in manufacturing were lower in December than a month earlier.
The manufacturing sector accounted for 33% of all mass layoff events and 41% of all related initial claims filed in December compared to last year when manufacturing comprised 30% of events and 38% initial claims.
Transportation saw the most layoffs -- 38, 811, mostly in motor vehicle manufacturing, followed by food manufacturing (8,557), and wood products manufacturing (6,359.)
The total number of mass layoffs in December was 1,201 with the number of employees involved totaling 133,818.This is a decrease of 19 mass layoffs from November.
Looking at the numbers from particular states, California had the highest number of initial claims filed due to mass layoff events in December (34,848), followed by Michigan (22,842), Illinois (17,195), Kentucky (15,975), and Ohio (15,848). These five states accounted for 40% of all mass layoff events and 42% of all associated initial claims for unemployment insurance.
www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=13479Manufacturing worker shortage??? I don't think so.
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Post by Libslayer on Jan 26, 2007 13:29:40 GMT -6
Manufacturing worker shortage??? I don't think so. U.S. manufacturers getting desperate for skilled people Updated 12/5/2006 EMMAUS, Pa. — Michael Bunner has done everything he can think of to hire workers. He's increased pay, offered training and recently, hired a man straight out of prison. But despite all those layoffs, Bunner can't find plastic welders or even people who are willing and able to be trained for the specialty job. "I'm turning down contracts," says Bunner, president of Electro Chemical Engineering and Manufacturing, which makes chemical tanks. "I could expand 20-30% overnight if I had more people." But manufacturers, regardless of size, specialty or location, across the USA are reporting a dire shortage of skilled workers: people such as welders, electricians or machinists with a craft that goes beyond pushing buttons or stacking boxes but does not require a degree. www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htm"But manufacturers, regardless of size, specialty or location, across the USA are reporting a dire shortage of skilled workers:"
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Post by blueneck on Jan 26, 2007 13:59:45 GMT -6
Baloney, a few anecdotes of employers whining does nothing to change the reality of 3 million and growing downsized and outsourced skilled, semi skilled and other wise manufacturing workers. Excpet for the few that may have died or changed careers, these people did not evaporate into thin air.
When you get to the bottom of it is one ore more of three root causes - employers unwilling to pay wages commensurate with training and/or experience, ex manufacturing workers seeking more secure and stable employment in other businesses, lack of students willing to pursure a percieved dying trade.
You can not dispute the fact that manufacturing continues to shed jobs, therefore no such thing as a mfg worker shortage, there is a shortage of jobs for manufacturing workers - take a drive around your local industrial park and see for yourself.
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 26, 2007 14:03:41 GMT -6
Baloney, a few anecdotes of employers whining does nothing to change the reality of 3 million and growing downsized and outsourced skilled, semi skilled and other wise manufacturing workers. Excpet for the few that may have died or changed careers, these people did not evaporate into thin air.. A "few"? "But manufacturers, regardless of size, specialty or location, across the USA are reporting a dire shortage of skilled workers:" www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htmYou can not dispute the fact that manufacturing continues to shed jobs, therefore no such thing as a mfg worker shortage, there is a shortage of jobs for manufacturing workers - take a drive around your local industrial park and see for yourself. Yes, just as they have ALL over the world INCLUDING China: Over the past decade, U.S. manufacturing jobs have declined by more than 11 percent, Miklovic noted. But at the same time, Japan’s manufacturing employment base has dropped by 16 percent, while the number of manufacturing jobs in countries including Brazil have declined by some 20 percent, he pointed out. “And one of the largest losers of manufacturing jobs has been China,” Miklovic added. “We like to pick on China and say that all of these jobs are going to China, but they’re losing jobs in manufacturing as well.” www.automationworld.com/view-320"China is losing more manufacturing jobs than the United States. For the entire economy between 1995 and 2002, China lost 15 million manufacturing jobs, compared with 2 million in the U.S., The Conference Board reports in a study released today" Matthew Spiegelman, Economist at The Conference Board and co-author of the study, notes: “The U.S. lost 202,000 textile jobs between 1995 and 2002, a tremendous decline by any measure. But China lost far more jobs in this sector –1.8 million. All told, 26 of China’s 38 major industries registered job losses between 1995 and 2002.” www.conference-board.org/utilities/pressDetail.cfm?press_ID=2432
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 26, 2007 14:06:56 GMT -6
take a drive around your local industrial park and see for yourself. To quote you "Baloney, a few anecdotes " Driving around the any industrial park is not going to tell you if those factories are losing business because they can't find people to do the work.
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Post by ig on Jan 26, 2007 15:36:00 GMT -6
China is losing jobs to technology. The old China was all manual labor. China does have fewer mfg jobs than it had 10 years ago.
The US is also losing jobs to foreign competition. FDI in emerging economies are making them more efficient. Productivity growth in those markets dwarfs the US.
In a true Fiat system. Living standards would rise in economies like chin. the dollar would rise in value and their goods would be more expensive to import. Their surplus would shrink.
In the current system their surplus is "washed" back through the debt markets pushing the long end of the bond market down. Undervaluing or manipulating currencies has proven a dangerous practice.
Even if the US lowered the value of the dollar as it did in the Plaza Accord, it is no guaruntee the trade defict would lessen.
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Post by blueneck on Jan 26, 2007 15:38:18 GMT -6
It will tell you how many manufacturing workers are out of work.
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 26, 2007 16:58:35 GMT -6
It will tell you how many manufacturing workers are out of work. More anecdotal evidence, doesn't tell you anything. "In a survey of 800 manufacturers conducted by the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM) last year, more than 80% said they were experiencing a shortage of skilled workers. In October, manufacturers surveyed by the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia said "finding qualified workers" was their biggest business problem." www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htmIt's limiting my growth," says John West, president of Fox Valley Metal-Tech in Green Bay, Wis. Earlier this year West turned down a $1.5 million contract with Kraft Foods because he didn't have enough welders. That order would have grown his business by 10%. West's firm, which produces metal machinery parts, has increased pay and offers full health benefits, training, a matching 401(k) plan and bonuses to employees who refer people to work there. "You get a good worker who has that skill set, you make sure they don't want to leave," West says. "You pay them well; you treat them well." www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htmThat's good news for Richard Smith. The 29-year-old from Chillicothe, Ohio, is graduating Dec. 15 from a nine-month welding program at the Hobart Institute of Welding Technology. He's received three job offers, paying $16 to $19 an hour, or more than three times the federal minimum wage. The companies are also paying medical benefits, offering 401(k) plans and paying for additional training. www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htmeconomists Richard Deitz and James Orr at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, employment in high-skilled manufacturing jobs rose 37%, or by 1.2 million jobs, from 1983 to 2002. At the same time, low-skilled factory jobs dropped 25%, or by approximately 2 million workers. www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htm
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jan 26, 2007 17:01:38 GMT -6
Manufacturing worker shortage??? I don't think so. U.S. manufacturers getting desperate for skilled people Updated 12/5/2006 EMMA'S, Pa. — Michael Bonner has done everything he can think of to hire workers. He's increased pay, offered training and recently, hired a man straight out of prison. But despite all those layoffs, Bonner can't find plastic welders or even people who are willing and able to be trained for the specialty job. Is this the same whiny employer that you quoted before? Give me his number, and I'll call him myself. I can weld. And if he's willing to pay enough, I'll go work for him. And if he's as desperate as he claims, he could spend a couple of days training me. That's how companies used to get welders. They trained them from scratch themselves. Bethlehem Steel offered welding and shipbuilding jobs to those with no skills whatsoever. They did the training themselves. I was personally in an on-the-job training program that trained me (and other applicants) to weld and burn (using a cutting torch) from scratch. As I got better at my job, I was "promoted" and given a pay raise and an upgrade in my status (i.e., from probationary to 3rd class to 2nd class, etc.) That's the way most industrial employers did it in the past, instead of expecting the government to train workers at taxpayers' expense. This was in the day's when companies weren't so disgustingly greedy and conniving, when they upgraded their business by investment in capital and labor, instead of "investment" in Congressional lobbying for government handouts and other forms of Corporate welfare. from your article: " There were 10.2 million manufacturing production workers in the USA in October, down 19% from 10 years ago and 28% fewer than 40 years ago." That's because there are no jobs for them, and employers won't pay enough to pull them away from their lower-paying service sector jobs. " The percentage of all workers in the USA employed in manufacturing has been declining for 50 years. In October, 10% of the U.S. workforce was employed in the manufacturing sector, an all-time low. In 1946, one out of every three workers had jobs in manufacturing." Because 3 million plus manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas in the last 6 years alone, because greedy Corporate scumbags are replacing American workers with low-wage, semi-slave labor in foreign countries to virtually eliminate their labor costs. And they've leaned on Big Government Republicans for loans financed by taxpayers, loan guarantees financed by taxpayers, and tax breaks (subsidies) financed by taxpayers to do so. But the loss of jobs.... The "loss of jobs" means there are more workers available to do the remaining jobs, not less. Again, all of the previously employed shipfitters, welders, & ironworkers did not disappear. They didn't all die and they weren't all abducted by aliens. They are still available. But employers willing to pay them the market rate for labor are scarce. There is no such thing as a "labor" shortage when only 145 million of 230 million working age Americans are employed. There is only a "shortage" of jobs, and a "shortage" of employers willing to pay enough to hire them. " I'm turning down contracts says Bunner, president of Electro Chemical Engineering and Manufacturing, which makes chemical tanks. I could expand 20-30% overnight if I had more people." Bullshit! He could "expand overnight" if he simply offered higher wages to potential workers, instead of being a greedy con-artist who expects to become a millionaire overnight by paying sub-market level wages to workers. Bunner's only hiring problem is his terminal greed, and his attempts to lobby the government to allow him to import low-wage foreign workers to fulfill his dream of becoming an overnight millionaire, instead of spending the extra time and money to invest in American workers and training. No, they're only suffering a "dire shortage" of workers who're willing to work for the low wages they're offering. Simply raise wages and the problem is solved. There is NO shortage workers, either skilled, semi-skilled, or unskilled in this country. There is only a shortage of employers willing to pay enough to hire them.
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Post by blueneck on Jan 26, 2007 17:05:26 GMT -6
It is real evidence, boarded up factories and industrial buildings with "for sale" signs are not hiring many mfg workers now are they.
Chinese mfrs have terrible turnover rates, many leave after deciding factory work in dirty and unsafe conditions for low pay isn't for them. Also china has lost jobs due to overbuilt capacity correction. But at current growth rates and increased domestic demand they will soon catch up to their capacity.
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 26, 2007 17:05:36 GMT -6
The huge trade deficit with China, which makes up the bulk of the US trade deficit, is due to the fact that China attached its currency to the dollare and wouldn't let it float. They have recently unattached it and allow it to float but only within a narrow range of the dollar. If the yuan was allowed to float on the market the US trade deficit would decline a great deal. " yuan, which has been pegged at about 8.28 to the dollar for about a decade" "China may widen the trading band but it will be a very small widening, maybe 3 percent," said He Fan, an economist at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences in Beijing." www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/18/AR2005071801597_pf.html
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 26, 2007 17:08:21 GMT -6
Is this the same whiny employer that you quoted before? Give me his number, and I'll call him myself. "In a survey of 800 manufacturers conducted by the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM) last year, more than 80% said they were experiencing a shortage of skilled workers. In October, manufacturers surveyed by the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia said "finding qualified workers" was their biggest business problem." www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htm
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 26, 2007 17:10:50 GMT -6
"It is real evidence, " It is anecdotal evidence and therefore USELESS. " Chinese mfrs have terrible turnover rates, many leave after deciding factory work in dirty and unsafe conditions for low pay isn't for them. Also china has lost jobs due to overbuilt capacity correction. But at current growth rates and increased domestic demand they will soon catch up to their capacity." The whole world is losing unskilled manufacturing jobs. "economists Richard Deitz and James Orr at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, employment in high-skilled manufacturing jobs rose 37%, or by 1.2 million jobs, from 1983 to 2002. At the same time, low-skilled factory jobs dropped 25%, or by approximately 2 million workers" www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htm
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 26, 2007 17:12:47 GMT -6
"That's because there are no jobs for them, and employers won't pay enough to pull them away from their lower-paying service sector jobs. " No it is because UNSKILLED manufacturing jobs have been declining all over the world for decades. "economists Richard Deitz and James Orr at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, employment in high-skilled manufacturing jobs rose 37%, or by 1.2 million jobs, from 1983 to 2002. At the same time, low-skilled factory jobs dropped 25%, or by approximately 2 million workers" www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htm
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 26, 2007 17:14:18 GMT -6
Baloney, a few anecdotes of employers whining does nothing to change the reality . ""In a survey of 800 manufacturers conducted by the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM) last year, more than 80% said they were experiencing a shortage of skilled workers. In October, manufacturers surveyed by the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia said "finding qualified workers" was their biggest business problem." www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htmWhen you get to the bottom of it is one ore more of three root causes - employers unwilling to pay wages commensurate with training and/or experience, ex manufacturing workers seeking more secure and stable employment in other businesses, lack of students willing to pursure a percieved dying trade. You can not dispute the fact that manufacturing continues to shed jobs, therefore no such thing as a mfg worker shortage, there is a shortage of jobs for manufacturing workers - take a drive around your local industrial park and see for yourself
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 26, 2007 17:17:28 GMT -6
[quote author=admin board=general thread=1169838007 post=1169852498 No, they're only suffering a "dire shortage" of workers who're willing to work for the low wages they're offering. Simply raise wages and the problem is solved. There is NO shortage workers.[/quote] There IS a shortage of SKILLED workers. "That's good news for Richard Smith. The 29-year-old from Chillicothe, Ohio, is graduating Dec. 15 from a nine-month welding program at the Hobart Institute of Welding Technology. He's received three job offers, paying $16 to $19 an hour, or more than three times the federal minimum wage. The companies are also paying medical benefits, offering 401(k) plans and paying for additional training." www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htmThat is $30k right out of 9 months training.
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Post by blueneck on Jan 26, 2007 20:06:16 GMT -6
Again more one sidedness - NAM is an umbrella lobbying group for multinationals with a record of pro-globalization policy. They seldom if ever represent the views of independent US based small to medium sized mfrs.
Lou Dobbs had the president of Nam on his show and thoroughly discredited his assertions of the so called manufacturing workers shortage, using much of the same data shown here many times over you continue to ignore - such as the declines in manufacturing employment and the numbers of outsourced jobs and closed plants.
NAM is motivated by and biased towards their false assertion of a "shortage" to promote their H1-B and pro outsourcing agenda. Implying that the most productive workers in the world are somehow too stupid and lazy to perform skilled and semi skilled mfg jobs.
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Post by blueneck on Jan 26, 2007 20:53:19 GMT -6
Finally you say something that makes sense and I can agree with. China's currency manipulation is one of the biggest factors in the trade deficit and one of THE most harmful things to US based small to medium sized mfrs trying to compete against artificially low cost dumped products.
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Post by blueneck on Jan 26, 2007 21:53:00 GMT -6
Again more nonsense from the right - you guys just keep buying whatever you are sold by your loudmouths that keep telling you that black is white, and repeat it so much you start to believe it, real evidence from observation and personal experience be damned.
It must be tough going around with rose colored glasses blind to the world around you.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jan 27, 2007 2:04:14 GMT -6
There IS a shortage of SKILLED workers. "That's good news for Richard Smith. The 29-year-old from Chillicothe, Ohio, is graduating Dec. 15 from a nine-month welding program at the Hobart Institute of Welding Technology. He's received three job offers, paying $16 to $19 an hour." In previous years, employers would train workers to do the job. Employers were truly desperate for workers then, unlike at present, and they were willing to pay for the training, instead of expecting the government or the worker to pay for it. This story is another perfect example of how non-desperate employers are for workers, and how desperate they are to get them on the cheap, and only if someone else has already paid for their training. And all of this when profits are at record highs.
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 27, 2007 9:37:06 GMT -6
[Again more one sidedness - . AGAIN more PROOF you are wrong, a SURVEY that shows 80% of manufacturers are having trouble finding skilled labor, as compared to ZERO evidence to back up your claims.
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 27, 2007 9:46:27 GMT -6
Only the ignorant use anecdotal evidence from their limited experience and extrapolate to the whole nation. The informed know how ignorant it is. You claim you saw a closed factory and say that is proof there isn't a shortage of skilled labor. Pure nonsense.
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 27, 2007 9:51:24 GMT -6
There IS a shortage of SKILLED workers. "That's good news for Richard Smith. The 29-year-old from Chillicothe, Ohio, is graduating Dec. 15 from a nine-month welding program at the Hobart Institute of Welding Technology. He's received three job offers, paying $16 to $19 an hour." In previous years, employers would train workers to do the job. Employers were truly desperate for workers then, unlike at present, and they were willing to pay for the training, instead of expecting the government or the worker to pay for it. It is up to each of us to get the skills needed, it is not up to others to do it for us. "EMMAUS, Pa. — Michael Bunner has done everything he can think of to hire workers. He's increased pay, OFFERED TRAINING and recently, hired a man straight out of prison. " www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htmIn the past employers trained workers because there wasn't any place to get the training. "That's good news for Richard Smith. The 29-year-old from Chillicothe, Ohio, is graduating Dec. 15 from a nine-month welding program at the Hobart Institute of Welding Technology. He's received three job offers, paying $16 to $19 an hour, or more than three times the federal minimum wage. The companies are also paying medical benefits, offering 401(k) plans and paying for additional training." www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htmThat is $30+ a year to start after only 9 months of training, WITH benefits.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jan 27, 2007 13:58:22 GMT -6
In the past, employers didn't whine about not having enough skilled workers. They took care of the "skill" problem themselves, instead of expecting someone else to take care of it for them. Though profits were less in the past, companies spent more of those lesser profits on workers, especially by training them. That worked better for all, since companies can train workers better themselves. As a result, companies were less likely to get rid of an employee whom they'd already invested in. They retained more workers, and had more loyal and productive employees as a result.
In the past, companies truly were desperate for workers, and were willing to pay enough money to get them (and retain them.) In contrast, today's companies are NOT desperate for workers. They're only desperate for workers who they can get on the cheap. Today's companies are "desperate" only to cut labor costs, in order to raise their exorbitant, already record-level profits to even more exorbitant levels.
Unlike the past, today's companies invest more in advertising & propagandizing, management compensation, and government lobbying-- while spending less on equipment, training, and retaining workers.
Even though Corporate profits are at record levels, and markets are described as either "drowning in a sea of liquidity," "flooded with capital", with Corporate accounts being "glutted with cash," companies still refuse to invest in employees-- either through training or through wages high enough to attract employees. The money is readily available to invest in employees. But the willingness (and desperation) to do so is not there.
Today's Corporate chieftains are modern day's Welfare Queens. They want the government to do everything for them -- train their employees, give them subsidies, protect them from market competition, and protect them from organized labor -- while allowing them to ignore any laws of that reduce profits or compensation (like hiring legal workers, backdating stock options, publishing fraudulent quarterly reports, etc.)
Today's Corporate welfare queens no longer rely on hard work or ingenuity to survive. Instead they increase profits by soliciting g government handouts and protections, in addition to dishonest (and illegal) business practices.
What a great country! No matter how rich you are, you can still get even richer, by begging, stealing, and lying to further your cause. You can advance your greed-motivated interests even further, by buying up the all media outlets, as well as creating "think tanks" to concoct more self-serving economic theories, thus increasing your ability to disseminate lies and propaganda.
No matter how rich you are, you can always get richer. There are always more ways to fleece workers and the American middle class, and solicit even more taxpayer-funded handouts.
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 27, 2007 18:00:53 GMT -6
In the past, employers didn't whine about not having enough skilled workers. That is because they WEREN'T skilled workers they were UNSKILLED assembly line workers.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jan 29, 2007 16:42:21 GMT -6
In the past, employers didn't whine about not having enough skilled workers. That is because they WEREN'T skilled workers they were UNSKILLED assembly line workers. Wrong again. They were skilled workers, just like the one you cited in your previous post. And over 300,000 highly skilled computer technology workers were laid off in California alone since Bush took office. Lack of skills has absolutely nothing to do with the layoffs. Lack of employer willingness to pay the surplus number of skilled workers we already have is the problem. The only "skill" American workers are lacking is the ability to survive on $2/day. Maybe we need new schools to teach that "skill."
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Post by LibSlayer on Jan 30, 2007 13:40:37 GMT -6
"Wrong again. They were skilled workers, just like the one you cited in your previous post." Wrong, in the past assembly line workers were UNSKILLED, we have been losing unskilled factory jobs and gaining skilled factory jobs. "And over 300,000 highly skilled computer technology workers were laid off in California alone since Bush took office. And yet there are more Americans working in IT than every before, and the greatest shortage of IT people is programming. "Lack of skills has absolutely nothing to do with the layoffs. " That is exactly the case with factory layoffs, unskilled labor is being replaced with automation, while there is shortage of skilled labor. "economists Richard Deitz and James Orr at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, employment in high-skilled manufacturing jobs rose 37%, or by 1.2 million jobs, from 1983 to 2002. At the same time, low-skilled factory jobs dropped 25%, or by approximately 2 million workers" www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2006-12-05-skilled-workers-shortage_x.htm
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Post by ig on Jan 31, 2007 8:54:08 GMT -6
that is the problem with productivity gains from either technology or reduction in input.
so we cut taxes or see the price drop (in theory happens but there has never been a prolonged fall in CPI with the exception of the Great depression)
Most production line work like at the plants I work for are skilled jobs. they have been skilled since the late 70's early 80's. Noone is going to walk off the street and run a screw or forming machine. Its just not done. the pay for these jobs has stagnated. Much of this work has been "leaned". value added work beyond the basics has been automated. In a union shop you are looking at $20.00 an hour. Non-union 12 to 15 an hour. Thats just gross salary. From that deduct Insurance contributions. about 250 a month for union. about 500 to 550 a month for non-union. (family rates) and by the way that contribution isnt considered in the BLS wage data. nor is Health Insurance in the CPI data. you are not going to get much of an employee for 12 an hour.
as far as owners plowing back into the business with capital invesment. doesnt happen and doesnt happen in the rest of the economy either. Capx has consistently fallen since the IT boom.
this guy may have a real problem finding skilled labor but here is the rub.
there is plenty of skilled labor in michigan illinois ohio. so there are relocation costs not to mention that those same areas have seen their property values fall drastically and liquidating housing is really tough.
If you lose a job and need to retrain you need the cash to do it. It obviously wont come from income or equity. It will have to come from savings. considering the country has a negative savings rate and you cant get an equity loan without a job you are looking at student loans. 2 years you are looking at 20 to 40K in debt and will be making the same money yuo made before you retrained.
If that is the plan then i suggest we make labor mobile. we can make the american version of the Saudi Nomad. you can wander from poor economic areas like Ohio, Michigan and Indi. and move to areas of better economic growth.
of course you lose the local tax base and vital services but who cares. you can flood an area with a labor shortage with cheap labor, and if you read Dave Stockman or Bruce Bartlett's books that was the whole idea. Break the back of labor, get higher profits and labor will enjoy lower prices (hasnt ever happened. like I wrote earlier, show me a sustained fall in CPI)
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jan 31, 2007 15:48:42 GMT -6
From Industry Week "Midwest Manufacturing Large Part Of Mass Layoffs But number is improvement over last month. Compiled By Adrienne Selko Jan. 25, 2007 -- During December, 390 mass layoffs occurred in the manufacturing sector according to a report released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics on Jan. 26. A mass layoff is defined as having at least 50 people from a single company filing for unemployment insurance. Both the number of layoffs and the number of initial claims in manufacturing were lower in December than a month earlier. The manufacturing sector accounted for 33% of all mass layoff events and 41% of all related initial claims filed in December compared to last year when manufacturing comprised 30% of events and 38% initial claims.... The total number of mass layoffs in December was 1,201 with the number of employees involved totaling 133,818....." www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=13479Manufacturing worker shortage??? I don't think so. I don't think there's any shortage either. In fact, these layoffs just increased the "supply" of available manufacturing workers by 133,818 workers. Maybe some of the whining employers mentioned elsewhere on this forum could hire some of these workers, since they can't seem to find enough "skilled" workers. Maybe they could redirect some of their money spent on advertising, lobbying, and propagandizing, into hiring those workers at the market rate. Maybe they could dip into their exorbitant, record-level profits and pay these workers a little more, and accept slightly less exorbitant profits. Of course, Corporate managers might have to sell one of their vacation homes, or one of their Lexus's. But these are tough times for the rich. Increasing their exorbitant profits to even more exorbitant levels is getting very difficult indeed. But sometimes you've just got to tighten your belt, and tough it out. Times are certainly getting hard for America's most affluent, aren't they. I feel sooooo sorry for them. Poor babies.
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Post by blueneck on Jan 31, 2007 17:17:35 GMT -6
I just have to laugh at Mr Lib statements and insults. He claims I am ignorant and lack any experience. Obviously he doesn't know anything about manufacturing. I have worked in and around manufacturing over twenty years and am a trained and degreed engineer among other degree and professional certifications. I don't claim to know everything, but I do know something about manufacturing. My current position is in Sales and marketing. And my job is in fact to analyze the manufacturing customer base and potentials. The FACT is that manufacturing has lost jobs and plants and continues to do so. I also travel frequently around the Midwest, northeast and southeast, and there is absolutely no denying that plants are closed and manufacturing jobs being lost all over the country. there is PLENTY of information to back this up from various industry associations, to Harris, to Thomas, D&B and other industry reporting groups and information presented here on this board. Closed plants are not hiring people. the remaining plants are not hiring people in any big way this is a FACT.
Mr Lib it is you sir who show your lack of knowledge and experience on this matter not I.
given the choice between what I see with my own eyes and what some internet troll says- Well I know what I will believe.
Good points ig - you are correct that the so called non skilled mfg jobs no longer exist in any big way in the US. Nearly every modern factory job requires a certain level of skill and training. From running CNC machines to maintaining and programming PLCs and robots to understanding schematics and diagrams to using specialised tools and instrumentation. So when a plant closes these skilled and semi skilled workers are now available - to fill the very rare and minimal open jobs - essentially non existant jobs.
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