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Post by agito on Jun 22, 2009 22:36:25 GMT -6
did everyone that cares about Iran get lost in twitterland?
btw- some humor-
anyway- posting a poll for the lazy/distracted who are spending their 140 characters elsewhere...
... sigh- guess it's only fair to post my own thoughts.
1) i'm dieing for more information. it sucks that non of the mega-conglomerate news agencies can't afford to have reporters on the ground in Iran, but similarly- with the crackdown what good could they have done. \ On the flip side of that- the dictatorship really made a mess of things when they repressed all the reporters. It was like using water to put out a grease fire. Now instead of the headline being "iran cracksdown on opposition" - it's "Twitter actually IS useful" .. which is one of those man bites dog headlines that has us paying attention longer than 30 seconds.
2) speaking of twitter. wtf! I thought youtube was useless- and then they had the youtube debates- and the exhibition of the instant appeal of visceral context that adjoined the questions proved merits to the platform. I felt like i was behind the curve. Now this?! It's only 140 characters and i feel like i'll never be able to catch up.....
3) neda oh shit- they weren't this fucking stupid really? Kill the beautiful one.. yeah real fucking smart.
4) meanwhile - what REALLY is going on? my biggest fear is that there is a policy analyst in washington going - we don't want any side to win. then it will be a win win situation for the current president. Can't have talks with iran while this is going on- and if it goes on forever- we don't have to do a damn thing. where as if the opposition wins- then we do have to talk to them.... the latest "hopeful" reporting is that a cleric in Iraq- al-Sistani might be getting involved , backing Rafsjani (who himself seems to me like a cross between Rupert Murdoch and halliburton) , but can you imagine that? A united iraq and iran... ah fuck.
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Post by redwolf on Jun 22, 2009 22:51:02 GMT -6
I am completely inspired by the actions of the Iranian people. It seems like they have more courage than we do in standing up to government corruption. I have also been fascinated with how they have managed to get media out of the country while the government attempts to block all communication. The revolution has indeed been digitized. Here is an op-ed piece I found interesting on dissident software that was developed during the Falun Gong crackdown in China and used by Iranian protesters. Tear Down This Cyberwall!By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/opinion/18kristof.html?_r=1
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Post by redwolf on Jun 22, 2009 22:59:58 GMT -6
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Post by agito on Jun 22, 2009 23:00:09 GMT -6
yeah- in similar vein- it breaks my heart seeing american companies cooperate with the chinese authorities concerning censorship jsut for the sake of expanded market share.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jun 23, 2009 2:46:41 GMT -6
I'm amazed that everyone just "knows" that Ahmadinejad didn't win, and that the election just had to be rigged. The most reputable pre-election poll showed Ahmadinejad with 34% of the vote vs. 14-16% for his nearest competitor, for a margin of over 2:1. Did it occur to the US Corporate media that maybe the people of Iran really did vote in favor of Ahmadinejad? At least some of us think so. from VDare.com June 21, 2009 Iran Falling to US PSYOPS?By Paul Craig Roberts " President Obama called on the Iranian government to allow protesters to control the streets in Tehran. Would Obama or any US president allow protesters to control the streets in Washington, D.C.?
There was more objective evidence that George W. Bush stole his two elections than there is at this time of election theft in Iran. But there was no orchestrated media campaign to discredit the US government.
On May 16, 2007, the London Daily Telegraph reported that Bush regime official John Bolton told the Telegraph that a US military attack on Iran would "be a ‘last option’ after economic sanctions and attempts to foment a popular revolution had failed."
We are now witnessing in Tehran US "attempts to foment a popular revolution" in the guise of another CIA-orchestrated "color revolution".
It is possible that splits among the mullahs themselves brought about by their rival ambitions will aid and abet what the Telegraph (May 27, 2007) reported were "CIA plans for a propaganda and disinformation campaign intended to destabilize, and eventually topple, the theocratic rule of the mullahs." It is certainly a fact that the secularized youth of Tehran have played into the CIA’s hands.
The Mousavi protests have set up Iran either for a US puppet government or for a military strike. The mullahs are in a lose-lose situation. Even if the mullahs hold together and suppress the protests, the legitimacy of the Iranian government in the eyes of the outside world has been damaged. Obama’s diplomatic approach is over before it started. The neocons and Israel have won.
The US intervention and the orchestrated disinformation pumped out by the western media are so transparent that it is impossible to believe than any informed person or government is taken in. One cannot avoid the conclusion that the West wants the 1978 Iranian Revolution overthrown and intends to use deception or violence to achieve that goal.
It has become increasingly difficult to believe that facts and truth motivate the western news media. For the record, I would like to point out a few of the most obvious oversights, to use a euphemism, in the Iran reporting.
According to a wide variety of news sources (for example, London Telegraph, Yahoo News, The Globe and Mail, Asbarez.com, Politico), "Before the polling closed Mr. Mousavi declared himself ‘definitely the winner’ based on ‘all indications from all over Iran.’ He alleged widespread voting irregularities without giving specifics and hinted he was ready to challenge the final results."
Other news sources, which might not have been aware that the polls were kept open several hours beyond normal closing time in order to accommodate the turnout, reported that Mousavi made his victory claim the minute polls closed.
Mousavi’s premature claim of victory before polling was over or votes counted is clearly a preemptive move, the purpose of which is to discredit any other outcome. There is no other reason to make such a claim.
In Iran’s system, election fraud has no purpose, because a small select group of ruling mullahs select the candidates who are put on the ballot. If they don’t like an aspiring candidate, they simply don’t put him on the ballot.
When the liberal reformer Khatami ran for president, he won with 70% of the vote and served from 1997-2005. If the mullahs didn’t defraud Khatami of his win, it seems unlikely they would defraud an establishment figure like Mousavi, who was foreign minister in the most conservative government, and is backed by another establishment figure, Rafsanjani.
As Mousavi was seen as Rafsanjani’s man, why is it "unbelievable" that Ahmadinejad defeated Mousavi by the same margin that he defeated Rafsanjani in the previous election?
Neoconservative Kenneth Timmerman let the cat out of the bag that there was an orchestrated "color revolution" in the works. Before the election, Timmerman wrote: "there’s talk of a ‘green revolution’ in Tehran." Why would protests be organized prior to a vote and announcement of the outcome? Organized protests waiting in the wings are not spontaneous responses to a stolen election.
Timmerman’s organization, Foundation for Democracy, is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) for the explicit purpose of promoting democracy in Iran. According to Timmerman, NED money was funneled to "pro-Mousavi groups who have ties to non-governmental organizations outside Iran that the National Endowment for Democracy funds."
The US media has studiously ignored all of these highly suggestive facts. The media is not reporting or providing objective analysis. It is engaged in a propagandistic onslaught against the Iranian government.
We know that the US funds terrorist organizations inside Iran that are responsible for bombings and other violent acts. It is likely that these terrorist organizations are responsible for the burning buses and other acts of violence that have occurred during the demonstrations in Tehran.
A writer on pakalert.wordpress.com says that he was intrigued by the sudden appearance of tens of thousands of Twitter allegations that Ahmadinejad stole the Iranian election. He investigated, he says, and he reports that each of the new highly active accounts were created on Saturday, June 13th. "IranElection" is their most popular keyword. He narrowed the spammers to the most persistent: @stopahmadi @iranriggedelect @change_For_Iran. He researched further and found that on June 14 the Jerusalem Post already had an article on the new Twitter.
He concludes that the new Twitter sites are propaganda operations.
One wonders why the youth of the world, who do not protest stolen elections elsewhere, are so obsessed with Iran.
The unexamined question is Mousavi and his motives. Why would Mousavi unleash demonstrations that are obviously being used by a hostile West to discredit the government of the Iranian Revolution that overthrew the US puppet government? Are these the actions of a "moderate"? Or are these the actions of a disgruntled man who kept his disaffection from his colleagues in order to gain the opportunity to discredit the regime with street protests? Is Mousavi being manipulated by organizations funded with US government money?
John Bolton laid out the US strategy. First we try to destabilize the regime. Failing that, we strike them militarily.
As this strategy unfolds, Iranians will pay in lost independence or in blood for the naiveness of its secularized youth and for the mistake the mullahs made in trusting Mousavi." Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury during President Reagan’s first term. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. He has held numerous academic appointments, including the William E. Simon Chair, Center for Strategic and International Studies, Georgetown University, and Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He was awarded the Legion of Honor by French President Francois Mitterrand. He is....the co-author with Lawrence M. Stratton of The Tyranny of Good Intentions : How Prosecutors and Bureaucrats Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice.
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Post by jeffolie on Jun 23, 2009 10:02:59 GMT -6
Iran will not fall anytime soon because of NEDA and the uprising.
Why, history demonstrates that China did not fall because of Tiananmen Square.
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Post by agito on Jun 24, 2009 14:24:39 GMT -6
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Post by xtra on Jun 24, 2009 22:26:36 GMT -6
I go with Paul Craig Roberts
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Post by waltc on Jun 24, 2009 23:58:54 GMT -6
I don't see the CIA as the force behind this, they aren't that bright despite what the 9/11 "truthers" think.
Nor is there anything we can do. Back Mousavi and we back another version of the tyrant and terrorist Mr.Imadinnerjacket. There are no good guys by western standards in this fight - just two brutal front men for the Ayatollahs.
The sad fact is the people wanted a brutal theocracy that imposes horrific penalties on any who break the laws and they got it in spades. Can't say I have any sympathy for them when the Mullahs start cracking skulls and shooting them dead.
BTW Obama ought to STFU on this, since the gutless wonder didn't have the guts to slam China on its ethnic cleansing of Tibet nor condemn the slaughter of Armenians and Pontic Greeks at the hands of the Turks.
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Post by xtra on Jun 25, 2009 7:01:01 GMT -6
I don't see the CIA as the force behind this, they aren't that bright despite what the 9/11 "truthers" think. Can you elaborate? I'm a 911 "truther" and I don't know anyone that says the CIA pulled 911 off. As to them being bright, that doesn't matter. The CIA have immunity from all laws and have a never ending off-the-books-budget. They mainly get their money from drug dealing and black-ops. They don't have to be bright. As too 9-11, most "truthers" believe these government officials are the ones who who pulled 9-11 off www.whodidit.org/cocon.htmlI'm sure some of the CIA as well as Mossad was involved too. Now, as to your verbage of "truthers" in this context (seems kind like you were pissing on the word) Would you piss on these guys too? www.patriotsquestion911.com/Senior Military, Intelligence, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials Question the 9/11 Commission Report Many well known and respected senior U.S. military officers, intelligence services and law enforcement veterans, and government officials have expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report or have made public statements that contradict the Report. Several even allege government complicity in the terrible acts of 9/11. This page of the website is a collection of their statements. The website does not represent any organization and it should be made clear that none of these individuals are affiliated with this website. Listed below are statements by more than 190 of these senior officials. Their collective voices give credibility to the claim that the 9/11 Commission Report is tragically flawed. These individuals cannot be simply dismissed as irresponsible believers in some 9/11 conspiracy theory. Their sincere concern, backed by their decades of service to their country, demonstrate that criticism of the Report is not irresponsible, illogical, nor disloyal, per se. In fact, it can be just the opposite. ________________________________________ Im not only a 911 truther, im a birther too. I want to see Obamas BC I question authority and do not believe this government.
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Post by redwolf on Jun 25, 2009 12:32:00 GMT -6
I heard reports last night of hackers shutting down Iranian government websites and erasing lists of dissidents pegged for arrest. Regardless of the outcome, the digital aspects of this uprising will be studied for years to come.
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Post by agito on Jun 25, 2009 19:24:11 GMT -6
I'd have to agree. I don't believe they are completely uninvolved however. What i find incredible is that this particular election started off in a very "open" manner- televised debates, an illusion that someone other than the incumbant could possibly win. Before that- the voters were apathetic- but the manner of the campaigns engaged them and got their emotions stirring. But these are all things that were done a long time ago- before the campaigns even started. I want to know who was responsible for those changes, because they had to have been made from within.
The CIA might have had the usual ops in the usual places- and put cash where it might do some damage- but they aren't the "force" behind this.
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Post by waltc on Jun 27, 2009 15:28:15 GMT -6
My gripe with the "truthers" is that they allow the Bush and Clinton Administrations and Congress to escape blame for 9/11. Anyone who knew anything about terrorism knew that a catastrophic attack was inevitable, it was just a matter of when. There were no efforts at securing our borders, ports and aircraft. No efforts at stopping immigrants from nations that are hostile to us and our society., etc.
The sad fact is a lot of people should have either been fired or put in prison for the lousy job they did prior to 9/11. Instead that discussion NEVER happened.
Instead we get a line of crap saying that a omnipresent CIA/Mossad/British Reptile people brought down the twin towers with suicide agents/robot aircraft/controlled demolition, etc.
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Post by graybeard on Jun 27, 2009 20:25:10 GMT -6
Right on, Waltc.
"Bu$h/Cheney kept us safe since 911." Well, what the hell about 911? The whole bunch should have been put on trial.
GB
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Post by xtra on Jun 28, 2009 0:17:03 GMT -6
My gripe with the "truthers" is that they allow the Bush and Clinton Administrations and Congress to escape blame for 9/11. Anyone who knew anything about terrorism knew that a catastrophic attack was inevitable, it was just a matter of when. There were no efforts at securing our borders, ports and aircraft. No efforts at stopping immigrants from nations that are hostile to us and our society., etc. The sad fact is a lot of people should have either been fired or put in prison for the lousy job they did prior to 9/11. Instead that discussion NEVER happened. Instead we get a line of crap saying that a omnipresent CIA/Mossad/British Reptile people brought down the twin towers with suicide agents/robot aircraft/controlled demolition, etc. reptiles? truthers can arrest this government??? I really dont know what your talking about. what do you want these guys to do, other than what there doing? and these guys arent reptiles, you need a drink. www.patriotsquestion911.com/
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