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Post by fredorbob on Jun 8, 2010 16:18:58 GMT -6
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Post by waltc on Jun 8, 2010 20:02:37 GMT -6
Good article and certainly shows how far removed today's Tea Party people are from the revolutionaries. Today's protesters are more likely to support Wal-Mart, monopolies and globalization by and for the rich rather than be against them.
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Post by fredorbob on Jun 9, 2010 11:10:00 GMT -6
Where is that older Saturday Night Live skit on a presidential debate where the candidates simultaneously said the exact same thing? It was hilarious.
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Post by cheshireprofessor on Jun 9, 2010 15:56:29 GMT -6
Re: The Real Boston Tea Partiers - Another perspective:
The colonists of the 1773 Tea Party were just as exploited, manipulated, and/or misinformed as the Tea Party subscribers of today. Our 'revered' revolutionary forefathers were mostly the wealthy speculators, capitalists, and large merchandisers of their day. The 'taxation without representation' historical rhetoric was used to incite the general population to solicit support for an agenda that primarily benefited the colonial monied elite that wanted more free reign and less regulation and oversight of their enterprises. As a practical matter the colonial taxes affecting most of the colonists were fairly minimal. Many subscribers of today's Tea Party rhetoric benefit the most from 'big government' programs and infrastructure. And similarly to their claimed historical forbearers, whether they realize it or not, many pay little if any Federal income taxes and those that do pay are considered by many social-economists as paying a disproportionate share vs. the most affluent speculators, capitalists, and large merchandisers of today.
And you thought 'spin' was a modern invention as a tool of rhetoric?
'_'
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Post by fredorbob on Jun 9, 2010 18:16:02 GMT -6
The article is with a liberal spin (bash Walmart), so their take is a little off. The East India Company was not a store, it was more of a warehouse and distributor who sold wholesale to stores that the colonials owned.
Imagine Chinese shipping companies forcing Walmart and other mom and pop stores to only buy their goods, and they would march armies through the streets if they refused. That's monopoly power none of us could conceive of because not even our great grandfathers had to deal with.
The East India Company was given monopoly powers LONG before the Boston Tea Party. Taxes were raised on many goods on the colonies LONG before the Boston Tea Party, 70 years before. And for 70 years the colonists could only muster complaints. What they did was buy from smugglers, who employed American colonists, and were owned by American businessmen. But as soon as the taxes were lowered undercutting the American smugglers; THE VERY FIRST SHIPMENT OF THE BARGAIN BASEMENT TEA; BAM! the colonists went into a fury. Why? Because they'd lose their jobs. They were "protecting" their jobs.
And the people who dressed up as Indians and dumped the tea overboard? The Sons of Liberty? They were primarily employed by the smugglers, it was their jobs that were at stake. They weren't astroturf Libertarians and Neocons; they weren't rich New Englanders with their fake salt and pepper whigs whining about high taxes. There were no high taxes.
A real tea party, in the spirit of the real Boston Tea Party would be if a bunch of union guys dressed up as muslims, hijacked a Chinese container ship, then dump every container over the side. The Libertarians and Neocons would scream bloody murder that their beloved free trade was under attack, then they'd go on an anti-Union rant. These tea parties are a mockery of history, warped history.
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Post by waltc on Jun 10, 2010 0:18:44 GMT -6
If any group of Americans dared to seize a Chinese container ship at Long Beach harbor they would be summarily killed by Federal agents and local SWAT teams in short order.
They certainly won't be treated like the Muslim Somali pirates - given a 3 hots and a cot plus top flight medical care.
Besides there would be almost no public support for a such a move. Most Americans don't care about their economic future as long as they can buy cheap crap from Wal-Mart and the other big box stores. Heck most Republicans and Democrats love free-trade so much, they don't even care if they lose their job and subsequently their home to free-trade. Look ever see a Repubs or Dems protesting free-trade en-mass? No.
Even the unions like the AFL-CIO are pro free-trade and pro open borders.
Even on the internet there is almost no interest regarding free trade or the damage it's done to the country.
All in all, a majority of people are quite content with free-trade induced poverty as long as they can have their cell-phones, IPODs, Iphones and other mindless electronic toys to entertain their feeble brains.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jun 10, 2010 1:20:21 GMT -6
A real tea party, in the spirit of the real Boston Tea Party would be if a bunch of union guys dressed up as muslims, hijacked a Chinese container ship, then dump every container over the side. The Libertarians and Neocons would scream bloody murder that their beloved free trade was under attack, then they'd go on an anti-Union rant. These tea parties are a mockery of history, warped history. Well said. Though today's tea-partiers have some well-justified rage, much of it is misdirected. Like the 1770's tea-partiers, the biggest problem is not high taxes. The biggest problems center around multinational Corporatism & jobs. Tax cuts do little for the unemployed or underemployed.
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Post by fredorbob on Jun 10, 2010 9:14:18 GMT -6
All in all, a majority of people are quite content with free-trade induced poverty as long as they can have their cell-phones, IPODs, Iphones and other mindless electronic toys to entertain their feeble brains. If we had Tariffs those cell-phones, IPODS, and Iphones would be manufactured here (or other 1st world countries) and be cheaper and of better quality.
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Post by proletariat on Jun 10, 2010 14:11:01 GMT -6
Today's tea baggers are identical to the tea-partiers. They are upwardly, middle class who in 1776 we would call the merchant class. Now, like then, they were a vocal minority who'd love to rewrite history that they were something more. Most folks in the 1700's did not partake in tea elitism, but we have seen how that was rewritten. One would think tea was the drink of the proletariats. It seems to me the tea baggers of today are direct decedents of tea partiers of yesteryear. Good article and certainly shows how far removed today's Tea Party people are from the revolutionaries. Today's protesters are more likely to support Wal-Mart, monopolies and globalization by and for the rich rather than be against them.
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Post by fredorbob on Jun 11, 2010 15:36:38 GMT -6
Today's tea baggers are identical to the tea-partiers. They are upwardly, middle class who in 1776 we would call the merchant class. Now, like then, they were a vocal minority who'd love to rewrite history that they were something more. Most folks in the 1700's did not partake in tea elitism, but we have seen how that was rewritten. One would think tea was the drink of the proletariats. It seems to me the tea baggers of today are direct decedents of tea partiers of yesteryear. So how did those present at the Boston Tea Party rewrite history? They didn't like the "standard history" of Oliver Cromwell?
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Post by proletariat on Jun 11, 2010 19:30:29 GMT -6
I would say a tea party revolt today would be akin to the Whole Foods crew getting upset about fair trade coffee.
History was rewritten in the sense of an emerging capitalist class linking their European cultural tastes to the revolutionary spirit at large.
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Post by waltc on Jun 11, 2010 20:13:16 GMT -6
Today's tea baggers are identical to the tea-partiers.
I don't think so, most tea baggers seem to be ready to retire and go on medicare more than anything else. White, aged, out of shape and ignorant of economics and the role government plays would be a good way of describing the bulk of them.
Or perhaps simply tools of the GOP.
You ain't gonna find farmers, factory and steel workers among them. People directly effected by free-trade or even the economic down turn. In addition free-trade and off-shoring aren't even issues to these people. They don't care that their cloths come from some Chinese slave labor shop or that pair of $200 shoes they wear come from a Indonesian sweat shop and they certainly don't give a flying f**k about the Americans who lost their jobs to off-shoring period.
Nor do you start a wave of change with a movement with almost zero young blood and lack of blue collars chanting what amounts to GOP talking points.
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Post by fredorbob on Jun 11, 2010 22:57:38 GMT -6
I would say a tea party revolt today would be akin to the Whole Foods crew getting upset about fair trade coffee. History was rewritten in the sense of an emerging capitalist class linking their European cultural tastes to the revolutionary spirit at large. That makes no sense, I guess.
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Post by graybeard on Jun 12, 2010 6:35:21 GMT -6
It would be telling to learn what percentage of Teabaggers are retired govt employees, who never had to work in the real world of profit and loss.
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Post by waltc on Jun 12, 2010 21:12:40 GMT -6
Greybeard wrote:
It would be telling to learn what percentage of Teabaggers are retired govt employees, who never had to work in the real world of profit and loss.
I would suspect its quite high. Too many of them seem to be totally ignorant of economics and oblivious of what it's like to work in the dog-eat-dog world of the private sector.
Oddly enough at least out here in Southern California they have almost no presence and the few that are here are indistinguishable from Libertarians in their points of view. Even blog wise their presence is less than impressive.
And more specifically in my neck of the woods, the Antelope Valley, they are almost non-existent despite the area having a strong Conservative demographic and a large Baptist contingent.
Where they do show up in numbers always seem to be in states with a boat load of retirees like Nevada and the Southern States.
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Post by agito on Jun 16, 2010 1:58:18 GMT -6
... in the media
(i.e. not in reality)
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Post by fredorbob on Jun 30, 2010 18:29:17 GMT -6
Hey I like this guy "Damn the negroes, I am fighting those traitorous aristocrats, their masters." Andrew Johnson "Whenever you hear a man prating about the Constitution, spot him as a traitor." Andrew Johnson "If the rabble were lopped off at one end and the aristocrats at the other, all would be well with the country." Andrew Johnson The Libertarians talk big on Liberty, but they really want slavery.
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