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Post by graybeard on Jan 11, 2009 11:25:25 GMT -6
Bill Moyers had Leo Gerard, Prez of United Steel Workers on Friday night. Leo said if we had universal healthcare like other countries, the big 3 wouldn't be in trouble.
The unions are pushing for open ballots to decide if workers want to organize, in place of the American tradition of secret ballots we have today.
Today management is able to put pressure on workers not to organize or risk being fired. That's serious. The union system of open ballots would seem to put peer pressure on workers to vote in favor of a union. The worker is caught in the middle.
Is there no middle road?
GB
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Post by jeffolie on Jan 11, 2009 12:03:33 GMT -6
I have experience much more favorable work thanks to unions. I have always chosen to belong to a union. They have stood up for me many times in the face of outrageous management behavior. One union saved my job twice. So, my testimonial is that unions overall are a tremendous benefit to workers in general and throughout the country. Even though I ended my working career with an early retirement as a Management Analyst, I can honestly say that often Managements are greedy, self interested, bastards who often do not have the best interests of their workers even on their event horizon.
I have studied Federal labor laws. They have been hammered out over time and do represent 'the middle road'.
Now for my disclaimer: not all unions are wonderful, fair and effective.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jan 11, 2009 16:14:06 GMT -6
Graybeard,
Thanks for bringing up the Moyer's special with the United Steel Workers President Leo Gerard. I watched the whole interview.
But I'm still confused about the "secret ballot" issue. It seems to me that workers themselves would be better served if the ballot was secret. How does making it non-secret help workers? If it's not secret, won't workers be more subject to intimidation and coercion by both management and unions?
What am I missing here?
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Post by waltc on Jan 11, 2009 21:44:46 GMT -6
On the whole unions do make it better for workers though I know of a few unions that were in cahoots with management and screwed the workers.
What I don't get is the "secret ballot" issue - that everyone needs to know how you voted. To me it reeks of a back door deal with management by the Democrats.
I know if management was aware of how I voted in unionizing a shop there would be retribution on the other side I don't want a union like the Teamsters knowing I voted against them.
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Post by graybeard on Jan 11, 2009 22:30:34 GMT -6
I'm hoping Blueneck will give us some clarity on this. One small manufacturer here in Socalif told me he'll close down if open balloting passes. That was the first I had heard of it, so could not engage it intelligently.
GB
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Post by kramer on Jan 13, 2009 11:33:32 GMT -6
Bill Moyers had Leo Gerard, Prez of United Steel Workers on Friday night. Leo said if we had universal healthcare like other countries, the big 3 wouldn't be in trouble. The big 3 and other companies will be taxed to pay for everybody's healthcare. Kramer
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Post by jeffolie on Jan 13, 2009 11:41:52 GMT -6
kramer
"The big 3 and other companies will be taxed to pay for everybody's healthcare."
There is no free lunch. Healthcare will be paid for somehow, by taxes or unfunded public spending or debt. Obama and the Congress are in a mode of borrowing unlimited amounts of money to fund the economy and will probably do this for healthcare. As the Treasury bills have a zero interest rate, borrowing carries a painless penalty. But the national debt grows and when interest rates climb, then the burden of interest on all that debt will soar as a percentage of the budget. How will the US pay for that interest burden? Will the Fed print money, will the Congress raise taxes? It will be painful.
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Post by kramer on Jan 13, 2009 17:53:42 GMT -6
There is for those who are on the receiving end of these social programs and aren't working. Healthcare will be paid for somehow, by taxes or unfunded public spending or debt. I was just pointing out that the people who think the big 3 will be saved from healthcare costs if we go to universal/national healthcare are wrong. Kramer
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