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Post by agito on Dec 13, 2009 18:52:12 GMT -6
It's always bothered me that student loan debts aren't dischargeable in a bankruptcy, because i feel it gives the universities a free pass on the quality of their education. But I also understand why it was passed (in 83 i think). Still you have to feel for what this guy went through: www.cuna.org/newsnow/09/wash121009-5.html Go to bankruptcy, get an an agreement from lenders to repay the principal but forgive the interest, then have that lender beat down your door 3 years later for the interest.....
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Dec 14, 2009 4:49:54 GMT -6
Thanks for the post. I'm currently having trouble with my own student loans, so I found this real interesting.
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Post by agito on Dec 14, 2009 12:03:50 GMT -6
I think my generation is starting to see higher education as a scam, especially independent vocation schools (there are tons of them popping up for animation and v-game design). At some point there has to be a crash and burn.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Dec 14, 2009 14:38:40 GMT -6
I think my generation is starting to see higher education as a scam Amen. I thought I was about the only one. The mantra that 'more & better education' will solve all problems is one of the biggest urban myths being perpetuated today. Many college degrees don't prepare graduates for any job whatsoever. When I got my undergrad degree in Biology, I wasn't qualified to do anything except flip burgers at McDonalds--or join the military. (My degree, coupled with my passing a test, would at least allow me to join the Navy as an officer. Whoopee!) Engineering grads, who were in great demand when I graduated, have seen their employment opportunities shrink, thanks to both outsourcing & H1B visa immigrant employment. It's very convenient for the Corporate & bankster aristocracy to blame all our economic problems on under-education & lack of job skills. It throws a smokescreen over the fact that they've shipped millions of American jobs overseas, including the most highly-skilled ones in engineering and internet technology. It further obscures the Clinton-era soundbite about training for the "new jobs" in the "new economy." Many of those outsourced jobs were the so-called "new jobs." Blaming education further hides the fact that there never really was a "new economy"—at least not one that produced real wealth. Our productive economy—one that created real wealth--was replaced by one that produced purely artificial wealth through asset over-valuation and "innovative" financial products mirages. Even the few areas where real wealth was created, it went into fixed non-productive assets—such as housing. And in the case of housing, the increased market demand was created by financial chicanery—through the increased spending power created by financial "innovation." The bulk of the new jobs created were in financial innovation and construction. And in the case of construction—the upward wage pressure that should have occurred from was eliminated by employment of illegal immigrants, who greatly expanded the labor supply. More education is not going to solve any of our economic problems, nor even reduce them. The problem is not lack of education, training, or skills. The problem is lack of jobs for those Americans who're already highly-educated, highly-trained, and highly-skilled. And that problem is caused by the availability of equally-trained foreign workers who'll work for a fraction of American wages, coupled with a Government that refuses to take the necessary action to protect its own workers, citizens, and taxpayers. It's the refusal of the Government to protect the very people it supposedly represents—the very people that elect them and pay their salaries.
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Post by proletariat on Dec 14, 2009 18:33:42 GMT -6
As my son told me the other day, I am not going to be stupid like you and go to college. He sees a college degree correctly as a money extortion scheme that is impossible to dig one out of. Ten years ago I had 40 k in debt, now it exceeds 150 k with wage garnishment that qualifies us for food stamps. There is something almost criminal about this government / banker scheme.
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Post by waltc on Dec 15, 2009 19:30:23 GMT -6
First off college loans should be able to be discharged through the bankruptcy system given how onerous they are for those who don't land high paying jobs out of college.
Which means a lot of college students today.
Secondly degrees for liberal arts majors at major universities should cost no more than a community college since it cost of the course is basically the professors salary. There are no continual infrastructure upgrades like the tech courses require.
Third, stop all student loan and aid programs. This will break the back of the university mafia system that now runs high education. Within 2-5 years most universities will be forced to drop tuition rates by 2/3rds or more if they want to survive.
Fourth: Do a public audit of all universities who take public money, find out where the money is going. Apply the RICO Act when and where necessary.
Fifth: Get rid of paying asshats like Friedman, Powell, and every other assorted kleptocratic tool their $25,000-$50,000 a speech honorarium. And then shit can the uber expensive Nobel Laureates kept on campus for bragging rights(they don't teach so no one will miss the buggers) and cost millions to recruit.
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Post by spudbuddy on Feb 25, 2010 11:16:01 GMT -6
So many things to address here (I work in the higher education "industry"). I suppose for all those still in love with the historically individualistic great gambling roll of the dice - and the random sampling of educated winners out there, it is still too easy for too many to view education as the road to upward mobility. But the rules are all skewed, now. All over the map. There is no reason why student loan payback rules have to be so draconian - except the obvious reason. Were repayment regulations drawn down to resemble any other kind of consumer debt - and were they regulated with strict ceilings governing interest rates and accruals - and were collections strictly adhered to payments geared to income, well then - the wheels would fall off. The lenders would go broke. Broke, not because students are all en mass, slimy welches - but because the education-to-wealth model doesn't work anymore, and hasn't for quite some time. Obviously.
Higher education needs to be rethought. I imagine there are still a relatively small number of people out there who believe in higher education for its own sake. Perhaps they're the ones who can "afford" to think so idealistically. The other 99.9% of the population see it as the ticket to a better working life. That's no secret.
On a lighter note (with darker humor) here's a little sly entertainment morsel that brings the issue into sharp focus. This one's almost as good as the clip of a debt collector calling an elevator, somewhere in Florida.... (the soundtrack is definitely better.) I figure that's the real dark side of the consequences of higher education - the reality that hits home, the one that reminds graduates that their best efforts now resemble a lost wild weekend in Vegas - the one in which they gambled away their futures. enjoy!
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Post by agito on Jun 9, 2010 10:18:20 GMT -6
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