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Post by jeffolie on Apr 3, 2010 9:43:10 GMT -6
Across the Board Gold Coin Sales Collapsing The U.K.’s Royal Mint, established in the 13th century, said first-quarter gold coin production shrank 50 percent, reports Business Week. Muenze Oesterreich AG, the Austrian mint that makes the best-selling gold coin in Europe, reported earlier that sales fell 80 percent in the first two months of 2010, for its coins. Sales of American Eagle gold coins by the U.S. Mint slipped 21 percent to 271,000 ounces in the first quarter from a year earlier, according to calculations from BW and made based on the Mint's web site. www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2010/04/across-board-gold-coin-sales-collapsing.html
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Post by waltc on Apr 3, 2010 10:38:41 GMT -6
To me it could be one of three things:
1)Could be that people are maxed out money wise and don't have enough left to buy $1000+ coins. Because at their current cost not to many people have that sort of income to buy them.
2)Are afraid they are buying gold clad tungsten core knock-offs that take a industrial x-ray machine see if the coin is fake or not.
3)The run on gold has stopped for the moment.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Apr 3, 2010 11:42:03 GMT -6
To me it could be one of three things: 1)Could be that people are maxed out money wise and don't have enough left to buy $1000+ coins. Because at their current cost not to many people have that sort of income to buy them. 2)Are afraid they are buying gold clad tungsten core knock-offs that take a industrial x-ray machine see if the coin is fake or not. All of that makes sense. However, the price of Gold is still at ~$1,100/oz. Maybe the supply of actual gold coins has dropped enough to keep prices from falling. But there's more on this front regarding possible Gold price manipulation. from Commodity Online: Will fraud lift gold prices to $10,000/oz?April 03, 2010 at 16:20 By Geena Paul " After the sub-prime catastrophe in banking and realty sector, which led to the global recession in 2008-09, it is the turn of bullion markets now.
‘FRAUD’, that is the one word which comes to any investor’s mind when s/he reads about the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) hearing on manipulations in bullion market by gold cartels.
So, the small and clean investors have been short-changed by big cartels during the past many years, especially during the recent boom time in bullion markets. Otherwise, how will you explain the biggest boom in paper gold (Exchange Traded Funds, ETFs) in the recent past with hardly any gold available in the market.
In fact, there is no gold left in this world if all the Gold ETFs ask for physical delivery. And, if that happens only god knows what will be the gold prices in the coming months — $10000 per ounce? Maybe, even more. Because, price of a commodity which is not available at all can go up to any level due to the sheer fact that it is not there in the market.
Now read about the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) hearing last week about a London whistle-blower who had explained to the CFTC how JP Morgan Chase has been manipulating/capping precious metal prices. In a shocking parallel to the inaction by the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) after receiving warnings from Harry Markopolos about the Madoff ponzi, the CFTC has apparently been sitting on the information on gold cartels.
Did you visit the websites of GATA and CFTC this week? If you do, you can see a lot of articles and responses from investors who have been keenly watching the developments in bullion market.
The whistle-blower in this biggest gold fraud was Andrew Maguire, an experienced precious metal trader in London. In an riveting interview (which is available on the internet all over the world) with GATA director, Adrian Douglas, Maguire describes a new dynamic impacting gold. The fact is that, there is a huge short position in the market.
The CFTC hearing confirmed what GATA has been saying all along, that the gold market is being manipulated. And, how? The gold cartel has accumulated a huge short position and the huge short positions are ‘naked’, which means these positions are not hedged. There is 100-times more paper-gold outstanding than physical gold. You must be saying Oh, My God! Then wait, there is more to it.
Seems like this would keep prices lower, since it would increase the total supply of gold if the paper gold was treated as solid gold. (paper gold + actual solid gold = total)
Sub-prime crisis was peanuts before this scam. The bullion market is now slowly taking in the impact of these revelations. The result is, there will be no gold in the market. Because, if people ask for physical delivery of gold for their ETFs, who will give all the gold. THERE IS NO GOLD! And the price of gold can be $5,000 per ounce, $10,000 or may be even more. Who can predict the value of a commodity which is not there is the market?
If holders of "virtual" (paper) gold suddenly started demanding delivery of solid gold, it would certainly increase demand--thus increasing prices.
To add fuel to fire The Wall Street Journal wrote: “The objective of this manipulation is to conceal the mismanagement of the US dollar so that it might retain its function as the world’s reserve currency. But to suppress the price of gold is to disable the barometer of the international financial system so that all markets may be more easily manipulated. This manipulation has been a primary cause of the catastrophic excesses in the markets that now threaten the whole world.”
So, the gold cartel now has a big target. It is inevitable that the big traders and hedge funds will push the naked shorts to the wall by asking for physical metal. If there is a squeeze on the naked shorts, the sky is the limit for precious metal prices.
There have been reports that over the past 10 years, the gold cartel has staged a controlled retreat. It has been fighting the advancing gold price with propaganda, paper short sales and the occasional dishoarding of physical metal from central bank vaults and more recently, the IMF. This retreat is about to turn into a rout, which means the upside potential for the precious metals is huge.
The CFTC hearing came about in part because of long-term complaints from organizations such as the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee and individual analysts such as Ted Butler, Reg Howe, James Turk, Frank Veneroso and Adrian Douglas that the gold and silver commodity markets have been subject to blatant extensive price suppression manipulation by the US government and its trading partners. Nooooo....Surely our own gov't wouldn't stoop to such levels, would they? "
In November 2009, Andrew Maguire, a former Goldman Sachs silver trader in that firm’s London office, had contacted the CFTC Enforcement Division to report the illegal manipulation of the silver market by traders at JPMorgan Chase. He described how the JPMorgan Chase silver traders bragged openly about their actions, including how they gave a signal to the market in advance so that other traders could make a profit during the price suppressions.
Maguire had a series of emails with Eliud Ramirez of the CFTC enforcement division explaining how the manipulations were tied to the Bureau of Labor Statistics monthly release of non-farm payroll figures and other recurring events. But..but...how can that be? The BLS has always been such a bastion of honesty.
In effect, the commissioners were told that almost all of the trading activities on the London exchange were merely settled by paper for paper, not for physical metals as the exchange supposedly requires. Further, the commissioners were told that it was impossible for the London exchange to ever deliver all the gold and silver owed to the owners of contracts."
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Post by jeffolie on Apr 3, 2010 12:51:53 GMT -6
"if people ask for physical delivery of gold" is not likely to happen so the short squeeze imagined from this condition of demanding delivery is very unlikely.
For example, commodities contracts are traded all the time without demand for delivery. Cash settlement is the usual result becuase contracts are covered with off setting positions or simply closed.
Assuming a short squeeze, then the CTFC and COMEX would have to come to the aid of the bankrupt dealers thus providing Dollars to settle in bankruptcy courts. Plus, if large banks are behind the short positions then the large banks have other assets to sell; not to mention that these are the TBTF (too big to fail) banks that certainly would get Obama and CONgress to bail them out.
As much as I would like to have a short squeeze really happen, I doubt it will happen. And, I doubt any banks will be allowed to fail for lots of reasons if a short squeeze does create a spike in silver or gold.
Bring on the short squeeze/panic. I am all for it.
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Post by waltc on Apr 3, 2010 20:49:07 GMT -6
ETF's were always a sucker's play, nothing more. Because you had no way of knowing whether the firm in question really had gold in it's possession or was just a gang of paper pushers.
I just couldn't believe anyone was stupid enough to fall for this scam because it's so obvious.
My view if the owners of ETF paper were to demand delivery most firms would just fold and their workers disappear into the night and the investors would be left holding worthless paper. Can't get blood from a rock.
Now as to whether or not Gold is a buy at it's current level depends on ones economic status. If you are buying Gold with grocery money then forget it, it's out of your price range. But if you are buying with 'walking around money' so to speak then IMO it's ok.
But IMO one ought to be well stocked with food, bartering goods(like booze, cigs and candies are a must), ammo and other essentials before buying the yellow metal at this stage of the game.
Why bartering goods, because most folks wouldn't know gold from the pewter alloys that can be shined like the real thing. Also people need to keep supplying their vices even in bad times(like Germany after WWII were there was a massive black market for cigarettes and booze).
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Apr 4, 2010 14:24:48 GMT -6
Across the Board Gold Coin Sales Collapsing.... The U.K.’s Royal Mint, established in the 13th century, said first-quarter gold coin production shrank 50 percent, reports Business Week. Muenze Oesterreich AG, the Austrian mint that makes the best-selling gold coin in Europe, reported earlier that sales fell 80 percent in the first two months of 2010, for its coins. Sales of American Eagle gold coins by the U.S. Mint slipped 21 percent to 271,000 ounces in the first quarter from a year earlier, according to calculations from BW and made based on the Mint's web site. The above US Mint sales assessment seems to conflict with the following report from Casey Research: 04/01/2010 GATA To Sell 191 Tonnes of IMF GoldThe U.S. Mint, which had obviously been withholding sales data for most of March, showed monstrous increases in sales of both gold and silver eagles. One oz. gold eagle sales jumped by 37,500 to end the month at 102,000....
Year-to-date/end of quarter figures...are as follows: 1 oz. gold eagle sales... 271,000. " Both reports agree on the actual amount of sales, but not on whether it was a big crash or a big rise. 271,000 oz would be 1,084,000 oz/year Below are excerpts from an article from mineweb that reports annual US Mint Gold sales. BROTHER, CAN YOU SPARE AN AMERICAN BUFFALO? by Dorothy Kosich July 14, 2009 " Congressionally authorized American Eagle Bullion coins are aimed at providing investors an effective way to invest in precious metals. Prices may change on a daily basis as the platinum, gold and silver markets may fluctuate. The mint does not sell the bullion coins directly to the public, but distributes them in bulk through a network of official distributors, who meet government financial and professional criteria, which must be attested to by an internationally accepted accounting firm.
So far this year (2009), the mint has sold 700,000 ounces or 700,000 gold bullion coins, compared to last year's (2008) total sales of 860,500 ounces of gold or 1,172,000 bullion coins.So for 2008, 860,500 oz were sold. The 700K oz for the 1st half of 2009 would average 350K oz/quarter. So Q1 2010's sales of 271K oz would be less than the quarterly average for the 1st 1/2 of 2009. But it would be higher than than the 215 oz quarterly average for 2008. Given the above, I suspect the Opening Post is closer to being correct than the alternate report from Casey Research.
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Post by jeffolie on Apr 4, 2010 14:35:24 GMT -6
The headline was dated April 1, April fools joke.
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