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Post by jacquelope on Apr 18, 2011 14:25:42 GMT -6
How will the rich maintain power? How will they pay their troops to protect their holdings? What will the rich pay their bodyguards with?
If workers walk out of factories because their paychecks are worthless, how will anyone be able to find and punish them?
What foreign currency will survive the collapse of the US Dollar? What economy out there will survive the loss of America as an export market?
It looks to me like the plutocracy will collapse if the dollar does.
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Post by waltc on Apr 18, 2011 23:40:49 GMT -6
Hard to tell. Argentina and Brazil might be good examples to look at after a country has a currency default.
Note: both still have ruling kleptocracies. Generally it takes a violent rebellion to remove these unsightly parasites. Though not as bad as ours. Ours seem to be totally malignant and will destroy the country given enough time.
However there is a difference. If the default causes mass unemployment and the demise of the social safety net and given that our populace is armed to the teeth, things could get real ugly for the rich.
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Post by jacquelope on Apr 30, 2011 1:30:39 GMT -6
The problem is that we're headed for a Mexico-style plutocracy, where the rich live high off the labor of the working class. The workers can no longer afford health care, dental care is totally out of reach, and food is getting out of reach, too. Energy prices are skyrocketing. But they keep saying inflation is TAME!! This is all about social Darwinism - the rich get everything and the working class gets to fend for themselves. This is all about population control, getting rid of the poor and those that the rich deem unnecessary. Take this and use it as a measuring stick to predict everything they want, you'll find it is dead-on. What we need is a global economic collapse. That sounds horrible and it is horrible, but it does nothing to the working class that is not already inevitable. This is absolutely important to consider. Without global economic collapse the working class is on its way to suffering EVERYTHING that comes with total collapse. Except that without total collapse, the rich will simply discard the workers. Before you go on, stop and watch the movie Zardoz - that's what is in store for the workers if we continue our current course. A total collapse is different from the status quo in only one way: it serves to put the uber-wealthy's skin back into the game. Society is addicted to social Darwinism; as such, a global economic collapse is like a giant fix of said drug, which will drive civilization into a total fatal overdose of its favorite moral narcotic. Civilization will fall over, froth at the mouth, spasm and convulse, and then die, perhaps even resulting in a Dark Age - a Dark Age that is already falling like a giant pall upon the working class. A collapse of that magnitude will force the survivors to re-think their take on the economy, and perhaps realize that unrestricted globalism and free trade is like dumping a bunch of kids on an island with no rules.People will say a global collapse would mean unprecedented crime, starvation, death and ruin - but all of that is unavoidable now. All that is left to argue about is the timeline, and whether there'll be a superclass of people who profit off the coming misery. A total collapse means no one profits. Lack of one, at this point, means the working class, everywhere, will live like the people of Mexico.
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Post by graybeard on Apr 30, 2011 5:44:21 GMT -6
Kill medical care for all but the rich. Outlaw abortion. Kill public education. Build more prisons. Prohibit inspection of imports.
Great plan.
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Post by jeffolie on Apr 30, 2011 9:35:15 GMT -6
I do not expect a 'collapse of the dollar' this year. I predicted when the dollar was about 80 that the dollar would decline below 70. I now expect a significant bounce off whatever the below 70.00 DXY low results...not a collapse this year that would destroy the dollar.
The money sucking now powerful do not want to kill off the financial system. They will prolong the system in a way that is to their advantage through existing structures (central banks, governments, etc) and techiques that do not create revolutions (accounting tricks, extend & pretend debt rollovers, shift private losses & debts to the taxpayers).
I continue my longer term posted expectation of a financial system failure on a world wide level but not now...most likely 2014 and/or beyond when Treasuries rates get high enough to hurt interest rate focused derivatives.
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Post by waltc on Apr 30, 2011 11:20:43 GMT -6
Here's another concern.
When the German currency collapsed because of the bankers it led to the rise of Hitler. In Russia they got Putin.
Here it's gonna be a bit different because the populace is armed to the gills. We're gonna get serious social and political unrest along with violence. Because with the Feds and states broke, both criminal gangs and desperate people will take to violence like a duck takes to water. People will die and our cities, especially the ones on the East coast that are already dying like Detriot and Cleveland will go up in flames.
As for the plutocrats extending the current system. Don't count on it. They aren't that bright. They're rich because they're crooked and connected(think Madoff pulled off his Ponzi without the help of very powerful Wall Street outfits - think again). People like that are parasites will kill the financial system, they can't help themselves.
But no one knows exactly when the system will go down. People might be able to narrow it down to within a year or so but that's it. Even one does, it's pretty useless unless one can figure out what and where to keep ones wealth.
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Post by jacquelope on Apr 30, 2011 11:53:55 GMT -6
Here's another concern. When the German currency collapsed because of the bankers it led to the rise of Hitler. In Russia they got Putin. Before I go on I should say this... I don't want a huge humanitarian catastrophe of the magnitude that will accompany an American collapse. The thing is, I see it as unavoidable at this point. Allow me to offer a theory. It's about a wrench. If it were offered to you for free, would you not take it? If you could use it to do your work for free, would you not do so? If it breaks or wears out, do you not throw it away without a second thought? This is how the ultra wealthy think of the working class. Even us second/third-from-the-bottom business owners are little more than tools to them. "Them" is the investor class, the people who earn billions from sheer residual income, the ones who get big payouts no matter which way the economy goes, the ones who can short sell entire industries or whole nations and get rich if their doomsday bets pay off and get bailouts if doomsday doesn't happen. To them the working class and us small fish business owners are an inconvenience. We're the wrench they have to pay to do the work to make them money or make their life easier. When we're no longer useful they can, will and almost always do dispose of us. Now look to the future, particularly into automation. The rich are always trying to find ways to automate away workers. When they can do this to the point where entire industries no longer need workers, they'll pull the rug out from under the workers. That means you get to fend for yourself - but since you'll be living on their land, and everything will be their land, they'll force you off. You won't have anywhere to go; you'll be a trespasser everywhere. That, folks, is called liquidation time. Like I said, remember the wrench. This is basic wrench-o-nomics. Go with this basic pattern: use the workers, use them with the bare minimum compensation that they can get away with, then dispose of the workers when they're worn out or no longer useful. When you no longer need any workers, push them out of your realm entirely. If you assume this premise you will not be shocked the next time you see the ultra wealthy reaching for new moral lows; because you will understand that the ultra wealthy are in fact reaching for new heights - rungs on a ladder towards the final goal of not needing workers at all, and not having workers clog up their lives. Oh, sure, there'll be a few kept around to entertain them. Some sexual fodder, too. But do not believe that they want you as a serf. They're looking way past that; they want you gone. Why would you keep broken or useless wrenches around? Throw it in the landfill. Basic wrench-o-nomics. If this happens society is in for an overdose of its favorite drug, social Darwinism. Hopefully it will be such a horrible overdose that the survivors will never allow society to ever go back to worshipping profits over people. As bad and horrible as this potential dark age is, it is much better than what amounts to the only alternative we have left. Either scenario is possible. They can make the necessary moves to keep the system going until they can replace the workers, or they can screw up and everything falls apart. Right now it's hard for me, personally, to tell which way things will go.
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Post by waltc on Apr 30, 2011 18:14:27 GMT -6
I agree, we are seen as useless or redundant by the banker/elite/intelligensia class.
They would dearly love to impose a "Final Solution" on us - the unwashed masses. As for the trade classes(doctors, engineers)they barely tolerate them.
Go with this basic pattern: use the workers, use them with the bare minimum compensation that they can get away with, then dispose of the workers when they're worn out or no longer useful. When you no longer need any workers, push them out of your realm entirely. If you assume this premise you will not be shocked the next time you see the ultra wealthy reaching for new moral lows; because you will understand that the ultra wealthy are in fact reaching for new heights - rungs on a ladder towards the final goal of not needing workers at all, and not having workers clog up their lives.
That does seem to be the ideal corporate model that many companies are indeed striving for. Look at Apple, it's just a company HQ with a bunch of execs, ad-men and a handful of design engineers. All the real work is done in their Chinese slave labor factory where workers killing themselves seem to be the preferred method of quitting.
If this happens society is in for an overdose of its favorite drug, social Darwinism. Hopefully it will be such a horrible overdose that the survivors will never allow society to ever go back to worshipping profits over people.
As bad and horrible as this potential dark age is, it is much better than what amounts to the only alternative we have left.
Social Darwinism has always been for the lower classes and put upon them by the wealthy via propaganda over many decades. The fact is, up until Reagan the working class generally stuck together. But thanks to systematic propaganda from the news media pundits and educators, they busted this up pretty good.
Basically they got them into believing the corporate mantra that unbridled capitalism and deregulation is good and government is bad.
Now the upper classes, they always look out for one another - they practice a benign form of socialism among each other. Look at Madoff, everyone on Wall Street knew what he was doing, but the Jewish and financial communities protected him until the end. Or the ratings agencies S&P and Moodys, you know the people who gave A ratings to crap securities that should have gotten a F and then sold it to pension funds.
No, this shit doesn't happen in a vacuum, it happens because these people collude and look after each other.
Lastly a revolution that purges us the financial elite along with the intellectual class that has aided and abetted them by brainwashing our young in college by killing critical thinking in them and stuffing their mushy brains with implicit social darwinism and turning them into self-indulgent twits with a zero attention span.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Apr 30, 2011 23:32:31 GMT -6
Lastly a revolution that purges us the financial elite along with the intellectual class that has aided and abetted them by brainwashing our young in college by killing critical thinking in them and stuffing their mushy brains with implicit social darwinism and turning them into self-indulgent twits with a zero attention span. That's exactly the kind of revolution we need.
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Post by waltc on May 1, 2011 13:31:38 GMT -6
I do believe like Jacquelope that some sort of revolt after our currency collapse will be our only way out.
The current monied elite and intelligensia who need to be hunted down and put six feet under. They've utterly wrecked this country economically and socially with their policies and so poisoned the political parties that we don't even have a functioning Democratic Republic anymore.
Jail is for criminals, what these people have engaged in, amounts to economic, social and political terrorism against the people of this country.
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Post by jacquelope on May 5, 2011 18:14:27 GMT -6
I know this is nutty but have you guys seen the Georgia Guidestone? It's a modern Stonehenge-like monument erected a few decades ago. It calls for the reduction of the human population to 500 million. If you read it, it reads like a twisted manifesto of liberalism, but it also reeks of sleight of hand: if you read the 10 tenets of this Guidestone, you might notice that capitalism, with its global economy and push for stuff like the "bancor", has agendas that are strongly in line with the Guidestone. Capitalism does a lot to screw with the environment (which one of its tenets addresses), but look where the rich live. Their fields are green and their water is uncontaminated. Get the workers and low-end businesses out of the way and they have a monopoly on all that is clean, good and beautiful in the world. I wish I had a link on me right now which talks about this one island in the Greenland/Iceland area; perfectly beautiful ecology and the rich are buying tracts of land there like crazy. The Georgia Guidestones.
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Post by waltc on May 5, 2011 21:51:08 GMT -6
Warning:
What follows is very, very politically incorrect. Don't read, if you don't want to get pissed.
OK.
There weren't problems with 3 billion on the planet and when the West had sane immigration polices(we lost ours in 1965 because of Kennedy and some powerful Jewish liberals who hate WASPs).
That said, there is a segment of wealthy that see the handwriting on the wall. They're smart and are trying to find places to move before the shit hits the fan. Iceland is a good place. It's isolated; Good peaceful European populace; absence of 3rd worlders on the dole; low crime, etc.
If I had kids, I tell them to move there if they want a future.
Why? Long term we're gonna have some nasty resource and race wars due to overpopulation and policies set in place by the elite. You don't wanna be in Europe or the U.S. when the fights start.
Too many people and not enough to go around.
There is no way around it. The U.S. already has large ethnic groups that will not assimilate and hate the majority ethnicity(Whites).
Europe is already getting a taste of it with it's millions of impoverished, fanatical Muslims that they have imported. They despise the society of Kaffirs they are now living in and are determined to turn it into a Muslim hell hole. Many cities in France now have "no go zones" where police aren't allowed to go. Muslims have created their own kingdoms so to speak.
England is well on it way to becoming a Islamic state in 30 or so years.
Here in the U.S. we have dying cities like Cleveland, Detroit that look like they are right out of Nigeria and they are run by people who would be at home in Somalia. Parts of Lansing, Atlanta and Los Angeles are literally 3rd world shit holes run by crooks.
To make matters worse, our cities are full of gangs(modern day Visigoths if you will) that cannot reasoned with, but can only be imprisoned or killed. And there are millions of them. To add insult to injury we even import them and pay their pattanas who pump out more little gang bangers instead of sterilizing them.
Bottom line the elite(academic and financial) have set the stage for resource and race wars across the West. Though I hold the academic elite even more accountable than any one else. The Social Marxists, Frankfurt School grads that run our social studies and humanities departments in Universities turned Americans into self-loathing, cultural nihilists, who worshiped the cultural flotsam of 3rd world countries and did everything to put down our own.
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