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Post by jacquelope on Jun 27, 2011 3:32:14 GMT -6
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Post by fredorbob on Jun 28, 2011 1:06:59 GMT -6
So California is saving money by using Chinese slave labor, but it also happens to be one of the most expensive projects; indeed.
Geez, you'd think if Chinese slave labor were being used than instead of saving $400 million in a $7,200 million project, at least they could save a few billion. Looks like someone's gonna get rich.
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Post by graybeard on Jun 30, 2011 8:27:37 GMT -6
Here's another article: The San Francisco Bridge That's Being Built In China Is Almost DoneRobert Johnson | Jun. 28, 2011, 8:00 AM China will send the final four segments of the new Oakland Bay Bridge 6,500 miles to California next month as the 2,050 foot project enters its final phase. China, a savvy, confident bidder of construction and engineering projects throughout the world is now bringing that experience to bear in the U.S. According to the Guardian, ...five of the world's top 10 contractors, in terms of revenue, are now Chinese, with likes of China State Construction Engineering Group (CSCEC) overtaking established American giants like Bechtel. CSCEC has already built seven schools in the US, apartment blocks in Washington DC and New York and is in the middle of building a 4,000-room casino in Atlantic City. In New York, it has won contracts to renovate the subway system, build a new metro platform near Yankee stadium, and refurbish the Alexander Hamilton Bridge over the Harlem river. Chinese engineering companies have several things going for them: Financing, companies are mostly state owned and have much easier access to the large sums required in contracting They transfer Chinese workers who work much more cheaply They use construction machinery built in China Because of the large profit margin, they hire globally renown architects to demonstrate they can deliver better designs than anyone else The main barrier to full Western expansion is seen as cultural, but likely something the Chinese will master with time and experience while doing business in the U.S. Update: An article was forwarded from Foreign Policy after this post went up this morning and mentions some salient points. California saved $400 million dollars by going with the Chinese workers who make $12 a day toiling from 7 a.m. till 11 p.m., seven days a week, and sleep in a company dorm room. So the $400 million estimated saving is largely a result of cheap Chinese labor. But is that a pure saving? If California and/or the United States have no unemployed workers who could make steel or polish it or do fabrications, then it is a pure saving. But last time I looked both California and the United States have close to 10 percent reported unemployment and closer to 15 percent if we count part time workers who want full time work and those who have become discouraged from even looking for work. Now those unemployed workers get some unemployment compensation and their health care has to be paid for by public means if they can't pay it themselves, and the banks have to repossess their homes when they can't make the mortgage payments, and then states and the Feds have to bail out the banks. I can count way over $400 million in unemployment costs pretty quickly and that's without even considering the downward pressure on all wages in the United States that arises from the import of these low wage products in the midst of high unemployment. I mean, I guess we could have had a cheaper Golden Gate Bridge in 1937 if we had just brought over a bunch of Chinese workers to do the job. But that would have defeated the purpose of building the bridge which was a major project in the effort to cut U.S. unemployment in the midst of the Depression. The author cites a story in Sunday's New York Times. Considering the enormity of decisions like this, both pieces are worth checking out. Read more: www.businessinsider.com/china-construction-san-francisco-oakland-bridge-built-in-china-will-span-san-francisco-bay-2011-6#ixzz1QllW7OA0The likes of Bechtel, Fluor and Granite Construction should be quaking. GB
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Post by waltc on Jun 30, 2011 11:53:53 GMT -6
This is absolutely amusing, the uber left wing city of the U.S. outsources and off-shore's a entire bridge to a country that still practices slavery and does brutal repression of those that speak out!
If anything it shows the Left and Corporate Right are on the same page economically and politically. All the supposed differences are mere window dressing to make people believe there is a difference between the Left and Right.
For years this has been the case but few wish to see that both parties are in cahoots and working for those who pay the most.
Sadly too many in America wish to remain stupid and actually believe what the talking heads and political apparatchiks tell them.
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Post by graybeard on Jun 30, 2011 20:59:59 GMT -6
What branch of govt is paying for the bridge, and what branch awarded the contract? It's interesting that Bechtel is right there in SFO. No such thing as hometown advantage in real life.
GB
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Post by waltc on Jun 30, 2011 23:19:50 GMT -6
It's funny that none of the city leaders or the governor said shit. They could have easily raised hell given their people run the major news rags and could have brought on AM radio shock jocks to get the word out.
They could have had a million people calling and writing in if they wanted.
They didn't. They don't have a populist bone in their millionaire hides. These people have more in common with Marie Antoinette than you or I.
Like I said, when it comes to economics the Left and Right are on the same page and they have been for the last 18 years.
But that reality is ugly, for many of the great unwashed it is acceptable to reduce themselves to a infantile political stooge who actually believes the drivel spewed by millionaire PR hacks for their consumption.
Franklin was right, Democracy was ours to keep if we could. We failed.
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Post by fredorbob on Jul 1, 2011 3:20:14 GMT -6
If anything it shows the Left and Corporate Right are on the same page economically and politically. Altogether: the left and the corporate right are on the same page economically and politically.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jul 1, 2011 16:02:15 GMT -6
Both sides yammer incessantly about how tight credit is and how hard it is to get loans to start up new businesses--without any acknowledgment that it is the lack of demand for production that is killing them, and that it is that very same lack of production demand that hampers their ability to get loans (assuming that getting loan is actually a problem)--since banks don't loan to businesses that have no prospect of selling enough of their goods to pay the loan back.
And both sides continue to barf-up the false soundbite about how American workers are too dumb and unskilled to keep their jobs, when the reality is that American workers are actually more skilled than their foreign counterparts, but simply can't survive on the $2-4/day wages that their lesser skilled foreign counterparts survive on.
Both sides are all about dumping more middle class taxpayers money into the pockets of some rich special interest group, under the guise of creating jobs (when the real reason is to "create" campaign contributions).
Both sides think Globalism is next to Godliness, and nothing should ever be done to restrict multinationals' profits from producing goods with cheap foreign labor, and then selling it back to the same Americans they've fired--without the encumbrance of Tariffs.
Both the extreme left and right think the world would come to an end without "a sound financial system", i.e., one where bankers are always bailed out--regardless of stupid, greedy, or criminal their actions are.
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Post by waltc on Jul 1, 2011 20:48:27 GMT -6
Today on Dylan Ratigan's show, Dylan ripped into both parties for having almost identical positions on economic and foreign policy. Was toward the tail end of the show.
Both are for perpetual war and empire building(we currently have 6 wars going on. Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya) Both are for bailing out the Banks Both don't want to touch the housing fiasco Both support big pharma etc.
And the rank and file wonder why things just keep getting worse no matter whom we put in.
But hey as long as we listen to millionaire party shills both in the MSM and in the blogosphere things won't change.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jul 2, 2011 1:02:23 GMT -6
Today on Dylan Ratigan's show, Dylan ripped into both parties for having almost identical positions on economic and foreign policy. Was toward the tail end of the show. Both are for perpetual war and empire building(we currently have 6 wars going on. Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya) Both are for bailing out the Banks Both don't want to touch the housing fiasco Both support big pharma etc. And the rank and file wonder why things just keep getting worse no matter whom we put in. But hey as long as we listen to millionaire party shills both in the MSM and in the blogosphere things won't change.It's this "protecting our national interests" soundbite that really gets me. We're not protecting middle class Americans' interests in Iraq or Afghanistan. We're protecting only the interests of America's richest war profiteerers.
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Post by jeffolie on Jul 2, 2011 11:37:04 GMT -6
Today on Dylan Ratigan's show, Dylan ripped into both parties for having almost identical positions on economic and foreign policy. Was toward the tail end of the show. Both are for perpetual war and empire building(we currently have 6 wars going on. Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Libya) Both are for bailing out the Banks Both don't want to touch the housing fiasco Both support big pharma etc. And the rank and file wonder why things just keep getting worse no matter whom we put in. But hey as long as we listen to millionaire party shills both in the MSM and in the blogosphere things won't change.It's this "protecting our national interests" soundbite that really gets me. We're not protecting middle class Americans' interests in Iraq or Afghanistan. We're protecting only the interests of America's richest war profiteerers. War Profiteers ... I agree A well known quote from a military hero that became a very popular President . This is the Farewell Address delivered by President Eisenhower in January 1961, ... argues that it is this new military-industrial complex that has the potential to undermine the very freedoms in America it was meant to protect. ... "...A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction. Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea. Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations. This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence - economic, political, even spiritual - -is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together..." www.historyplace.com/speeches/eisenhower.htmThe military industrial complex declined in my home town, City of Long Beach, and remains as a significant shadow. WWII and the 'cold war', plus lesser wars such as Korea, Vietnam ballooned the military, aerospace(building planes and later including space warfare) resulting in a doubling of the single family tract homes built for the now Boeing, Navy shipyard workers, satellite tech professions. When I bought our home here in 1980 over 120,000 worked making airplanes that half were military while now barely about 9,000 full time airplane workers have jobs. The Navy reduced its workers and enlisted by at least 90% as well during the last 31 years. Replacing the military industrial complex jobs in Long Beach transitioned the entire culture and average ages to a very mixed group of workers/professionals compared to the government, military 'company' town before the change.
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Post by waltc on Jul 2, 2011 12:10:32 GMT -6
"National interests" is just a label the elite use to silence opposition in regards to foreign policy decisions that benefit them and their associates.
People should ask "whose national interest?" because it's certainly not ours.
Ultimately if people want to bust up the cartel that runs this country they have to stop voting Democrat or Republican.
If they don't expect the wars to increase and more blood and treasury to be spilled.
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