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Post by jacquelope on Aug 6, 2011 13:22:07 GMT -6
Democratic Underground is MAJOR thumbs down on this. It's like the pro free trade people just WANT to get American workers' goats and get themselves high-tech lynched. These bloggers and article writers should be hounded, outed and highlighted by protestors wherever they walk and work. Make an example of them. A real lynching? Nah. Make them live a life not worth living: one of relentless humiliation. laborstrategies.blogs.com/global_labor_strategies/2009/03/buy-american-buyer-beware.htmlThis article's thrust is that hypocrites have preyed on the Buy USA movement, therefore the movement is invalid. And that we should be pushing solidarity with workers elsewhere. (Nice pie in the sky idea, but we need to take care of our own nation first. They sure as hell are taking care of theirs.) www1.ucsc.edu/news_events/press_releases/archive/99-00/08-99/buy_american_campaigns.htmThe gist? More hypocrisy. And also this: "...it goes so far as to promote "Buy Canadian" and "Buy Mexican" campaigns in those chains." GREAT!!! Let Mexicans buy Mexican made stuff. We can buy American and Canadians can buy Canadian. China has done damned well for itself with its "Buy Chinese" nationalism. "Frank observes that some of the staunchest advocates of Buy American campaigns are transnational corporations." Again: GREAT!!!! The more who accept "Buy American", the better. First we make sure the meme is mainstream; then we push to make sure it is the norm. Then we get around to weeding out the liars who sell us shit made elsewhere and packaged as "made in the USA". One step forward at a time. "Perfection now or bust" isn't the way to go. "uy American campaigns deny it and characterize laborers in other countries as the enemy." BULLSHIT. We characterize their Governments who manipulate their currency as the enemy. We characterize corporations that send our jobs overseas as the enemy. "Buy American" is how we shorten the chains of both entities and cut them back a notch or two. "Racism is incredibly subtle and deep in the culture," Frank notes. "We have stiff economic competition from Canada and Great Britain and Italy and France and we don't reject their products in the same way. The concern only comes up when Asian countries gain economic viability." Well NO SHIT SHERLOCK!!! Canada, Great Britain, Italy, France aren't all running hundred billion dollar budget surpluses against us. If they were, we'd have a problem with them. And what about the racism of free trade doing such huge disproportionate damage to the brown people here? Hmmmm? You guys never seem to have an answer to that. Not even those cowards on the Straight Dope could answer me on that. "At the core of Frank's argument is that the threat to the well-being of America's workforce comes not from abroad but from home, from corporate interests." Wrong again. The threat comes from all of the above. www.ranknfile-ue.org/uen_1200_bk_buyam.htmlAnalysis: this article's recitation of history is okay, but its interpretations are a pile of horseshit the size of which would solve our nation's agricultural fertilizer needs for generations to come. Don't breathe deep when you read this. For starters, while there was a lot of racism in union activities in the past, I see LESS racism among union people now than I see among people in general. It's not nonexistent, and there's no dearth of POTENTIAL for union and workers organizations to get divided racially. But this article suggests that nationalism and protectionism inherently means racism against your own citizens or hatred for foreigners. And as I stated above, today's reality is NOT that. Our anger is toward foreign Governments who manipulate their currency and "domestic" corporations that send our jobs overseas.
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Post by graybeard on Aug 6, 2011 14:38:40 GMT -6
No need to yell, "Buy American!" High import tariffs and 100% inspection of imports will cure all.
GB
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Aug 6, 2011 17:13:56 GMT -6
Dana Frank is the ultimate globalist. What she's really advocating is that American workers be brought down to the wage levels of foreign workers, so that American workers are equally impoverished as 3rd world workers.
Fortunately, she's not getting a lot of love from the sounds of it.
It's interesting to hear her tripe about "economic nationalism."
The original name of this forum was going to be:
The Economic Nationalist Forum.
I chose the Economic Populist Forum instead, only because it had a better ring to it.
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Post by waltc on Aug 6, 2011 19:38:52 GMT -6
Both articles are obscene. The first seems to be run a group of Marxists who are only interested in helping 3rd worlders, supporting open borders and fighting any sort of economic populism. link: www.globallaborstrategies.org/about/Oddly enough none of the principals say who they currently work for. Are they all trustfund pukes or are they employed by a PR agency like Burston Marstellars. Now to 2nd one. Dana Frank is a professor at UC Santa Cruz, that's about as far Left as you can get. Back in the '70's UCSC was hippy/freak central, you could even make up your own major. It's a joke University for pot heads today. The fact she's professor there pretty much disqualifies her from having a brain let alone a legit thought. Oh yeah, she's real ugly, classic man hating feminist.
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Post by jacquelope on Aug 6, 2011 22:59:12 GMT -6
Both articles are obscene. The first seems to be run a group of Marxists who are only interested in helping 3rd worlders, supporting open borders and fighting any sort of economic populism. Ironically, if wages, benefits and working conditions in the 3rd world were all brought up to our standard, there would be no point in outsourcing outside the country. Those foolish authors don't even seem to touch on that in those articles. Offshoring can only work if you have an impoverished labor pool to move jobs to.
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Post by jacquelope on Aug 6, 2011 22:59:57 GMT -6
Dana Frank is the ultimate globalist. What she's really advocating is that American workers be brought down to the wage levels of foreign workers, so that American workers are equally impoverished as 3rd world workers. Fortunately, she's not getting a lot of love from the sounds of it. It's interesting to hear her tripe about "economic nationalism." The original name of this forum was going to be: The Economic Nationalist Forum. I chose the Economic Populist Forum instead, only because it had a better ring to it. I prefer "Protectionist". Say it loud and say it proud and don't let the enemy re-define it into a mark of shame.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Aug 6, 2011 23:17:16 GMT -6
I've been kicking around in my head the name for a new 3rd party. The word "protectionist" is always part of that internal dialogue.
How about the Populist Protectionist Party?
Or just the Protectionist Party?
Either seems appropriate to me.
The time has come for a 3rd party to be formed--to at least steal votes from the major parties, and cause one of them to incorporate more protectionist policies.
You don't have to win elections to change policy. You just have to intimidate the winners into changing their own policies.
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Post by jacquelope on Aug 7, 2011 3:41:16 GMT -6
Forget intimidating. All we have to do is open their eyes.
Over 80% of America OPPOSES offshoring, even the Wall Street Journal saw that in their polls. The WSJ, for God's sake.
All we have to do is hijack the airwaves and scream "we're mad as hell at offshoring" and it will spark a tsunami of a movement. All California has to do is pass an anti state jobs offshoring initiative and it WILL be the shot heard round the world. THAT would spark a nationwide rebellion. NATIONWIDE.
All we have to do, in fact, is get the funding here in CA to start collecting signatures for this initiative. That'll force the MSM and powers that be to fight us in the trenches. That's where they'll lose... badly. Just being forced to fight us without the politicians being able to be bribed into stopping us (they can't stop the initiative process, or get around it once it becomes law) will doom them. The corporations will be forced to argue on TV for offshoring and that will sink them. And what happens in California sends shock waves across America... especially this.
One initiative will rock the world.
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Post by fredorbob on Aug 7, 2011 8:14:59 GMT -6
I've been kicking around in my head the name for a new 3rd party. The word "protectionist" is always part of that internal dialogue. How about the Populist Protectionist Party? Or just the Protectionist Party? Either seems appropriate to me. The time has come for a 3rd party to be formed--to at least steal votes from the major parties, and cause one of them to incorporate more protectionist policies. You don't have to win elections to change policy. You just have to intimidate the winners into changing their own policies. America First Party Protectionist Party sounds like a 1-issue wonder party.
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Post by jeffolie on Aug 7, 2011 8:20:08 GMT -6
The Globalist Take Charge.........Evil Plan 3.0 FWIW, here is my current view on things: In our world today, it is indisputably clear for all to see, that a globe made up of individual sovereign states governed by nationally elected statesmen has almost completely ceded way to a new paradigm. The international banking & corporate titans are now the real powers directing world affairs. To understand what comes next in our economic outlook, and how the market may react to it, it is essential to think about what these new centers of power are interested in. The first order of business for our new masters, is to take full advantage of the sovereign debt crisis now imploding in Europe. Rahm Emanuel's mantra comes to mind "never let a major crisis go to waste". One could even go so far, as to make the case, that the current debt crisis now engulfing Europe was actually initiated by the financial oligarchs themselves, so as to further consolidate their grip on the independent nation states. After all, it was the financial & commercial elites of the world, that most fiercely advocated for, and imposed the EU & EURO on to the Sovereigns. Saving Italy & Spain from financial collapse, and protecting all of Europe from descending into a great debt depression will no doubt be sighted as the reasons for their bold actions. But the real and much more sinister motivation, is to use this crisis, to further consolidate the powers of the EU & the international banking cabal over the Sovereigns, by creating a Pan European bond market. The final result, will be the near total evisceration of the national right of a country to direct its own monetary & fiscal affairs. All of this delivered without even one vote ever being cast by a Nation's own people. So here is my take on how this raging European debt crisis will unfold. A new stealth QE3 will be devised by the upper most echelons of the international banking cabal. The heads of the TBTFs both here and abroad, world renowned financial industry wizards, and esteemed economic academia, will assert their influence on the FED / Treasury to roll out the following. Let's call it Evil Plan 3.0........... The FED will implement its established currency swap lines to wire massive amounts of new digital USD currency to the ECB. The ECB will then use these new funds, much like the FED did with TARP & QE2, so as to shore up the European banking system, instill confidence in national bond markets, and support all financial asset classes. These actions will also serve to prop up the EURO, and keep downward pressure on the USD. Both of which are desired outcomes by international banking & multi-national corporate interests. So how will this effect the U.S. equity markets you ask? My best guess is, that this newly unleashed liquidity Juggernaut will once again find its way into all financial risk assets. So after this policy is announced over the weekend, and is implemented next week, I am expecting a sharp relief rally which normally would be quickly sold off, but much to all our surprise, will sustain itself, and possibly carry the market back up near 1300..........PMs should continue to shine brightly slopeofhope.com/2011/08/the-globalist-take-charge.htmlAuthored by Tim Knight Tim Knight's irreverent and bearishly-tiled blog, The Slope of Hope, sprang to life in March 2005 and has been irking stock market bulls ever since. Now one of the most widely-read financial blogs on the Internet, Slope of Hope has become a nexus for skeptics, technical analysis, and overall ne'er-do-wells to discuss the state of politics, the markets, and charts.
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Post by waltc on Aug 7, 2011 17:37:32 GMT -6
To get the initiative on the ballot in CA takes about a million dollars and it helps a lot to have at least 50%more registered voters sign the petitions than you need.
Then it has to be vetted by state officials as a valid proposition that can be enacted as state law. So it has to be written up by a legal team.
And it doesn't hurt to have talk radio promote it, say like John and Ken on 640am - classic rabble rousers who hate both parties. They have about a million listeners. That means you need a couple of articulate and intelligent proponents to do that and deal with globalists.
And here's the gotcha: It that initiative affects a lot of businesses that depend on importing and off-shoring they are going to get on the phone and pressure their Reps to kill it.
Bottom line - it's tougher than you think with propositions that go after deep pocketed people and companies.
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Post by graybeard on Aug 7, 2011 18:14:29 GMT -6
"America First party" I like that!
It's akin to "Deutschland uber alles" without the aggression.
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Post by jacquelope on Aug 7, 2011 21:37:44 GMT -6
To get the initiative on the ballot in CA takes about a million dollars and it helps a lot to have at least 50%more registered voters sign the petitions than you need. Oh that is no problem. When word gets out, you'll have lines around the block of people clamoring to sign that. The support for tariffs and the opposition against foreign outsourcing in America is LITERALLY off the charts. A notable obstacle. Anyone from this group could fill that role. There's no shortage of that talent. I'm not sure how calling the Reps can do anything to stop an initiative. The politicians cannot stop an initiative once it goes to the ballot box, not by any method I know of. I'm not even sure how they can stop it from getting to the ballot box if the money is paid and the votes are acquired. Maybe they can get some crooked lawyers to screw up the wording? Who knows, that might be possible. And yeah, businesses and well paid-off politicians will try and propagandize the airwaves - a formidable problem, to be sure - but from what I've seen, here's where the momentum goes in our favor: Pro offshoring propaganda, pushed upon the people today, would be like flailing in quicksand. The harder they fight, the more they turn people against it. And the unions will most certainly put up money to fight for this proposition. They would want this fight once it's put to them... badly. Basically if it gets as far as the ballot box, all the polling data I've seen says this will turn into a Meg Whitman vs Jerry Brown fight where a few selected hard hitting Union-sponsored ads LATE in the game will score a flurry of redundant knockout blows. A few leveraged hits will do phenomenal damage. Basically all you need to make this initiative SAIL through with 75% at the polls is a picture of the SF bridge "MADE IN CHINA" and pictures of out of work Californians. There is no propaganda force on Earth that can overwhelm the power of that message. The power elite are just gonna piss voters off the harder they try. The initiative will pass. 75%. It will make 75%. I am confident that I have this figured out. The people are ticked off enough, they are desperate to be given a voice in this free trade BS. That said I do see problems where it comes to the initiative getting verified and finding the right attorneys to word the law properly. I do not see ANY problems getting it passed once it hits the ballot box. In fact I see the power elite spending more than Meg Whitman spent - I imagine that over $200 billion will go to fighting this initiative online, on TV and radio and in the streets - and that will make it by far the most expensive, humiliating and demoralizing loss for the power elite in political history. Oh and I know I'm being superlative. I believe I am also slightly understating the damage this will do to the free traitors.
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Post by graybeard on Aug 7, 2011 22:08:25 GMT -6
"anti state jobs offshoring initiative" You mean just state money, correct? I wonder if Calif could control the spending when fed money is in it, too?
I like the idea, and wish it could be expanded to the private sector as well.
GB
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Aug 7, 2011 22:14:52 GMT -6
The support for tariffs and the opposition against foreign outsourcing in America is LITERALLY off the charts. Are you sure about that? I'd really like to believe it. But my own experience suggests otherwise. Though I try to get the concept of imposing Tariffs into any conversation I'm involved in, I haven't seen a lot of interest from the public in general. I tried to get on the ballot for Congress in 2008 for the primary in my own district (CA-40). In talking with registered voters, I didn't see any great interest when I mentioned Tariffs. Unless things have changed, we're still going to have to do a real salesmanship job on the American public. They've been brainwashed by the media, both political parties, the Government, and Corporate America into thinking that free trade is all good. But on the other hand, maybe things really are different now, since the economy collapsed in late 2008. Maybe voters really are listening now, unlike they were in the beginning of 2008. I sure hope that's the case.
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Post by jacquelope on Aug 7, 2011 23:45:42 GMT -6
The support for tariffs and the opposition against foreign outsourcing in America is LITERALLY off the charts. Are you sure about that? I'd really like to believe it. But my own experience suggests otherwise. You get on the message boards and you'll see people bitching about offshoring like crazy. Yahoo, social networking, etc. But the real indicators are found in the bastions of free market capitalist propaganda. For instance the Wall Street Journal and the American Thinker are seeing a huge sea change. 86% average opposition to free trade as of the Sep/Oct WSJ poll, 60% support for tariffs as pointed out by a writer in the American Thinker, and another place put global opposition to it at a plurality of 40% or something like that (far higher than the level of support). Links: www.cnbc.com/id/39407846/53_in_US_Say_Free_Trade_Hurts_Nation_NBC_WSJ_Pollwww.americanthinker.com/2011/01/a_scaled_tariff_would_help_bal.htmlblog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/consumer/global-consumers-weigh-in-on-protectionism/People are apathetic but if asked to pull the lever they're clearly going anti. What is especially alarming about these poll numbers is how much support there was for free trade in the past, and how things are like night vs day now. Lack of interest is one thing... but what about opposition? All we need to do now is spark the fire. If an initiative hit the streets, hit twitter, hit the forums, get the word out. Call the unions and help them spread the word. No more bridges made by China = bigger sales pitch than people realize. If someone were to put the Chinese flag up on the SF bridge it would be pretty much over with.
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Post by waltc on Aug 8, 2011 0:34:55 GMT -6
I don't see a ground swell for imposing tariffs or doing anything about China. Most people here in CA with jobs are oblivious to this topic.
In the local paper letter to editor section is bereft of anyone writing about it. And they'll print almost anything as long as it's well written. I've written about trade and off-shoring and got zero response. Most people here are content with sucking Lockheed's and Edward's AFB tits and don't look beyond that.
But it's worse, the Rust Belt states like Illinois, Ohio and Michigan keep electing Corporate Democrats or Republicans, despite being skull f**ked by Free Trade and off-shoring policies these goons support. These people should be all rights at fore front of any populist movement against these policies, they aren't though.
This sort of voter idiocy would give any Bernie Sanders type populist serious pause for running for president.
Internet wise it's even worse. from 2001 to 2007 I was a Bernie Sanders type Lefty and I found out that there is almost no interest among Lefties say at Dkos, DU, Buzzflash at covering Free Trade and off-shoring issues. David Sirota's site was a ghost town, Bob Oak's is even in worse shape. When Sirota would post at Dkos he got very little interest unless he took a Democrat to task.
Most Democrats only care about Marxist oriented social-sexual and race issues. They don't give a flying fuck about Americans losing their jobs and factories being shut down unless it scores them political points against the GOP. Collectively they're worthless on this issue.
Go to sites on the economy like mainstream TheBigPicture or even ZeroHedge and almost no one mentions these issues. For most posters the last 15 years never happened, life is still great.
Maybe I'm wrong and right now nothing would make me happier to be proven wrong. Because I've given up on trying to get people interested in these issues. Very few care.
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Post by jacquelope on Aug 8, 2011 2:18:25 GMT -6
Damn, I wish I had kept that link that showed that Democrat politicians who publicly opposed free trade fared MUCH better than their counterparts in the 2010 elections. You guys would be majorly cheered up by that article. The article was in some pro-union blog that cited a lot of useful info on this. Argh. Oh and another poll: www.gallup.com/poll/124538/americans-see-protectionism-tax-cuts-ways-create-jobs.aspxNote that these are all major opinion shifts. Not too long ago, all the polls were the exact REVERSE...
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