Post by unlawflcombatnt on Jul 18, 2007 22:33:53 GMT -6
The Osprey V22 is a new aircraft nearing deployment in Iraq. There is considerable controversy over its deployment, due both to safety concerns and price concerns. Below is a picture of the Osprey V-22, followed by an article discussing it.
Osprey V-22
"The V-22 Osprey program has become the largest scandal in US military history. Stubborn Marine Corps Generals refuse to admit that dedication and political influence cannot overcome the laws of physics which have proven the complex tilt-rotor design flawed and ultra-expensive. Details can be found in the seven previous G2mil articles about the V-22, which reveal blatant lies about the V-22's performance. This article will cover the V-22's soaring cost, $96.2 million for each MV-22 this year, while the FY2005 defense budget request boosts the price 19% to $114.8 million per aircraft. The US Air Force requests three similar CV-22s in FY2005 for $443.0 million; or a unit cost of $147.7 million each. If the $395.4 million requested in FY2005 for V-22 research, development, evaluation and testing is included in this buy of 11 V-22s, the total cost of each V-22 is $159.7 million.
The US Army has lost 41 helicopters over Iraq and Afghanistan this past year, with another 24 so badly damaged they are likely to be scrapped. This is proof that employing ultra-expensive V-22s over combat zones is unwise, especially since they are larger than any helicopter in the US inventory. The V-22 weighs twice as much and costs four times more than helicopters with comparable abilities. For example, the Navy's FY2005 budget requests 15 MH-60S helicopters for $400.8 million; or a unit cost of $26.7 million each. This helo weighs one-third as much as the V-22, but can pick up nearly the same payload. It has room for 13 combat equipped Marines, compared to 18 for the V-22. If Congress canceled the V-22 and diverted its $1756.5 million FY2005 request to buy MH-60Ss, this could provide 67 modern helicopters for the Corps, which can also carry machine guns, rockets, and Hellfire missiles, unlike the V-22.
Marine Generals have evaded questions as to how the Marines can afford 360 V-22s, especially since other critical Marine aviation programs have been delayed as the V-22 is given priority. After a fatal V-22 crash in 2000, the General Accounting Office released a report projecting a V-22 average unit production price of $83 million. However, the Marine Corps insisted they would only cost $40 million. During an April 2000 news conference, a reporter asked the head of Marine Aviation, LtGen Fred McCorkle, to explain:
Q: Can you clear up for us the price tag on this aircraft? I've seen it various reported between $40 (million) and $80 million apiece. How much do they cost?
Lt. Gen. McCorkle: I'll be more than happy to, and this is on the back of an envelope, not something that you can take to the bank on price tag. But the way that I talk about price is what all the DOD aircraft are priced at is '94 dollars. It's -- the last official price on the MV-22 in '94 dollars is $39.9 million. I understand now that that is going to increase to, like, 41.7 or something million dollars, but when I hear somebody say it's $80 million, I'll say, Okay, so what does your aircraft cost and -- when we look at it in the same way? So normally, when you hear prices of $80 million or $100 million, somebody is comparing apples and oranges.
At a V-22 news conference several months later, another reporter asked McCorkle to clarify costs:
Q: Yes, you said that you requested a delay in Milestone 3. I assume that's to go for full production. And could you just run us through a little bit, first of all, the cost per -- what is the current cost projection per MV-22? And also, you were about to make that decision to go to full production, weren't you? What's the --
McCorkle: That's correct. And I didn't come down -- if you'll forgive me -- to talk about cost of the aircraft. I've done that before. We can get you a spreadsheet, if you want the cost, if you want the garage that goes with it. For those of you that I've talked to that say when somebody says $83 million, I just read -- I would hope to sell you your car, your next one, where you buy a $23,000 Chevy and I build your garage and give you the tires and batteries for 20 years, that will be about $85,000. So when you put it that way -- but we can get you the cost.
McCorkle led a passionate defense of the V-22 during his tenure. Soon after retiring from the Marines in October 2001, McCorkle joined the board of directors and as a senior advisor for GKN Aerospace Services (V-22 fuel tanks). He also serves on the Rolls-Royce North America board of directors (V-22 engines), and is a member of the board of directors of Lord Corporation (V-22 components). In addition, he has served as a consultant for Boeing Aerospace (V-22 maker) and Optical Air Data Systems (V-22 low airspeed indicator).
Cost information about the V-22 and other military procurement programs is often deceptive. The program manager now insists that V-22s are costing just $76 million each, despite the facts in the FY2005 Defense budget. What the V-22 manager does not reveal is that they hope the average cost for V-22s will fall dramatically and end up with an average of $76 million a copy over the entire production run. Since the V-22 began production in 1999, these projections have been wildly optimistic. The history of V-22 production clearly shows steady unit cost growth, so the program manager should be quoting a unit price higher than today's $115 million a copy if he wishes to advertise the average unit production cost.
The program excused higher costs in early years by noting these were Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) V-22s. This designation is used to explain high costs during the first two years of production since costs associated with purchasing production tooling, and hiring and training production workers must be included. That excuse was valid until 2001 when the V-22 entered normal production with a dozen of V-22s funded each year, despite having failed testing in 2001. This is the oddest production line in US military history since it turns out incomplete V-22s which are placed in storage in hopes that further testing scheduled to continue through FY2008 can produce a safe and effective final design. Then the first 100 of so V-22s must be sent back though the production line for upgrades to the final "Block C" configuration. The Marines have not included these V-22 upgrade costs in their future aviation budget plans nor in the quoted unit price.
The current excuse is that V-22s are costing so much because of inefficient low rates of production. However, the Navy has been buying only around 15 MH-60S a year, and those cost four times less. The FY2005 budget also contains a $320.4 million request for four Marine Corps KC-130J tankers; or $80.1 million each. This aircraft is twice the size of the V-22 with twice as many engines (the same engines too), and is now produced at the same rate as the V-22. So why does a V-22 cost 44% more than a big C-130 and 425% more than an MH-60S?...."
The full article can be found at
www.g2mil.com/V-22costs.htm
______________
Another source puts the cost of the Osprey V-22 at $70 million each. The Marines plan to buy 360 V-22s. How much will that cost?
$70 million X 360 = $25.2 Billion.
It's nice to know that Bush's "no-defense-contractor-left-behind" policy is still in force.
Osprey V-22
"The V-22 Osprey program has become the largest scandal in US military history. Stubborn Marine Corps Generals refuse to admit that dedication and political influence cannot overcome the laws of physics which have proven the complex tilt-rotor design flawed and ultra-expensive. Details can be found in the seven previous G2mil articles about the V-22, which reveal blatant lies about the V-22's performance. This article will cover the V-22's soaring cost, $96.2 million for each MV-22 this year, while the FY2005 defense budget request boosts the price 19% to $114.8 million per aircraft. The US Air Force requests three similar CV-22s in FY2005 for $443.0 million; or a unit cost of $147.7 million each. If the $395.4 million requested in FY2005 for V-22 research, development, evaluation and testing is included in this buy of 11 V-22s, the total cost of each V-22 is $159.7 million.
The US Army has lost 41 helicopters over Iraq and Afghanistan this past year, with another 24 so badly damaged they are likely to be scrapped. This is proof that employing ultra-expensive V-22s over combat zones is unwise, especially since they are larger than any helicopter in the US inventory. The V-22 weighs twice as much and costs four times more than helicopters with comparable abilities. For example, the Navy's FY2005 budget requests 15 MH-60S helicopters for $400.8 million; or a unit cost of $26.7 million each. This helo weighs one-third as much as the V-22, but can pick up nearly the same payload. It has room for 13 combat equipped Marines, compared to 18 for the V-22. If Congress canceled the V-22 and diverted its $1756.5 million FY2005 request to buy MH-60Ss, this could provide 67 modern helicopters for the Corps, which can also carry machine guns, rockets, and Hellfire missiles, unlike the V-22.
Marine Generals have evaded questions as to how the Marines can afford 360 V-22s, especially since other critical Marine aviation programs have been delayed as the V-22 is given priority. After a fatal V-22 crash in 2000, the General Accounting Office released a report projecting a V-22 average unit production price of $83 million. However, the Marine Corps insisted they would only cost $40 million. During an April 2000 news conference, a reporter asked the head of Marine Aviation, LtGen Fred McCorkle, to explain:
Q: Can you clear up for us the price tag on this aircraft? I've seen it various reported between $40 (million) and $80 million apiece. How much do they cost?
Lt. Gen. McCorkle: I'll be more than happy to, and this is on the back of an envelope, not something that you can take to the bank on price tag. But the way that I talk about price is what all the DOD aircraft are priced at is '94 dollars. It's -- the last official price on the MV-22 in '94 dollars is $39.9 million. I understand now that that is going to increase to, like, 41.7 or something million dollars, but when I hear somebody say it's $80 million, I'll say, Okay, so what does your aircraft cost and -- when we look at it in the same way? So normally, when you hear prices of $80 million or $100 million, somebody is comparing apples and oranges.
At a V-22 news conference several months later, another reporter asked McCorkle to clarify costs:
Q: Yes, you said that you requested a delay in Milestone 3. I assume that's to go for full production. And could you just run us through a little bit, first of all, the cost per -- what is the current cost projection per MV-22? And also, you were about to make that decision to go to full production, weren't you? What's the --
McCorkle: That's correct. And I didn't come down -- if you'll forgive me -- to talk about cost of the aircraft. I've done that before. We can get you a spreadsheet, if you want the cost, if you want the garage that goes with it. For those of you that I've talked to that say when somebody says $83 million, I just read -- I would hope to sell you your car, your next one, where you buy a $23,000 Chevy and I build your garage and give you the tires and batteries for 20 years, that will be about $85,000. So when you put it that way -- but we can get you the cost.
McCorkle led a passionate defense of the V-22 during his tenure. Soon after retiring from the Marines in October 2001, McCorkle joined the board of directors and as a senior advisor for GKN Aerospace Services (V-22 fuel tanks). He also serves on the Rolls-Royce North America board of directors (V-22 engines), and is a member of the board of directors of Lord Corporation (V-22 components). In addition, he has served as a consultant for Boeing Aerospace (V-22 maker) and Optical Air Data Systems (V-22 low airspeed indicator).
Cost information about the V-22 and other military procurement programs is often deceptive. The program manager now insists that V-22s are costing just $76 million each, despite the facts in the FY2005 Defense budget. What the V-22 manager does not reveal is that they hope the average cost for V-22s will fall dramatically and end up with an average of $76 million a copy over the entire production run. Since the V-22 began production in 1999, these projections have been wildly optimistic. The history of V-22 production clearly shows steady unit cost growth, so the program manager should be quoting a unit price higher than today's $115 million a copy if he wishes to advertise the average unit production cost.
The program excused higher costs in early years by noting these were Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) V-22s. This designation is used to explain high costs during the first two years of production since costs associated with purchasing production tooling, and hiring and training production workers must be included. That excuse was valid until 2001 when the V-22 entered normal production with a dozen of V-22s funded each year, despite having failed testing in 2001. This is the oddest production line in US military history since it turns out incomplete V-22s which are placed in storage in hopes that further testing scheduled to continue through FY2008 can produce a safe and effective final design. Then the first 100 of so V-22s must be sent back though the production line for upgrades to the final "Block C" configuration. The Marines have not included these V-22 upgrade costs in their future aviation budget plans nor in the quoted unit price.
The current excuse is that V-22s are costing so much because of inefficient low rates of production. However, the Navy has been buying only around 15 MH-60S a year, and those cost four times less. The FY2005 budget also contains a $320.4 million request for four Marine Corps KC-130J tankers; or $80.1 million each. This aircraft is twice the size of the V-22 with twice as many engines (the same engines too), and is now produced at the same rate as the V-22. So why does a V-22 cost 44% more than a big C-130 and 425% more than an MH-60S?...."
The full article can be found at
www.g2mil.com/V-22costs.htm
______________
Another source puts the cost of the Osprey V-22 at $70 million each. The Marines plan to buy 360 V-22s. How much will that cost?
$70 million X 360 = $25.2 Billion.
It's nice to know that Bush's "no-defense-contractor-left-behind" policy is still in force.