Post by unlawflcombatnt on Dec 22, 2010 22:09:23 GMT -6
Since I share with many the rage of Obama's reverse Robin Hood tax cut sellout, I thought it would be worthwhile to post some of the rage from others.
This one comes from Firedoglake, regarding an interview done by assbite Lawrence O'Donnell.
I'm not posting the video here, just the commentary.
Despite what the fake polls, the mainstream media, and the lying Obama administration--most Americans do NOT support the tax cut deal.
These comments are an example of the hostility towards Obama that he created by selling out to the rich.
by Blue Texan
Wed, Dec 15, 2010
Early Morning Swim: Jane Talks Tax Cut Deal,
DREAM Act on Lawrence O’Donnell
Meanwhile, the Teabaggers are not happy.
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123 Responses to “Early Morning Swim: Jane Talks Tax Cut Deal, DREAM Act on Lawrence O’Donnell”
UnkaWillbur December 15th, 2010 at 4:52 am
Again, the Right knows how to bully its politicians while Progressives seem to only know how to cave.
Too bad progressive activists gave up their only leverage when their “leadership” announced on national TV that they weren’t serious about ever challenging the party’s power-structure. The right-wingers controlling the Democratic party now know they can safely ignore the progressives and progressives will just bend over when told.
The Right-wing will keep getting it’s way, because its activists still scare right-wing politicians, while progressives play a keystone-cops game of politics.
But hey, it’s certainly getting that progressive blogosphere’s “leaders” lots of national air time….
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2) ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 4:54 am
Letter received yesterday from back-stabber Al Franken.
Dear ghost,
'A lot of people are unhappy that the President punted on first down, and I’m one of them. Extending the Bush tax breaks for the super-wealthy will explode our deficit over the next two years without doing anything to help our economy. It’s bad policy.
But for Minnesota’s middle class, struggling to get by in a tough economy, there’s a lot in this bill that will really help: tax cuts for working families, a payroll tax holiday, energy tax credits, and the extension of Recovery Act initiatives that are already making a difference.'
Eff you, you LOSER!
Will be calling the back-stabbing Senator’s office today, asking that he NEVER contact me again....
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4) lefttown December 15th, 2010 at 5:07 am
4
In response to ghostof911 @ 2
I read that POS Franken’s letter, too. Oh, he writes, it was just the hardest vote he’s ever taken! Grab a hankie and put Al on the fainting couch. He proceeds to deceive the people, by telling them what goodies he’s gotten for them with his “yes” vote: A payroll tax “holiday” (he doesn’t mention SS depletion), a tax cut for all (eight more bucks in our pockets every week–all hail Al!), and help for the unemployed (which Grassley said they would have voted for anyway). What an Obama-kissing loser Traitor Al’s turned out to be.
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5) Bluetoe2 December 15th, 2010 at 5:12 am
Franken’s been in the Senate for what, 1 year? Certainly his first “hardest” vote of many more to follow. The Senate millionaires club is there to protect the rich and privileged and preserve the status quo.
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6) ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:14 am
In response to lefttown @ 4 (show text)
Al Franken is a POS Norm Coleman-in-drag. What a filthy sellout he turned out to be.
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8) Revroe December 15th, 2010 at 5:16 am
This gang of Democrats come from the city of “Cavealot”. All spineless, all babies. If I see one more filthy politician crying on stage, I think I’ll puke.
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9) ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:16 am
In response to ghostof911 @ 6
Correction. What filthy sellouts they all turned out to be.
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10)allan December 15th, 2010 at 5:17 am
Is it possible that Franken doesn’t understand how awful this bill is?
How much of the kind of information we see on FDL every day, and take for granted, is known inside the DC bubble? Any Franken staffers reading this, please speak up for your boss.
Otherwise we have to assume the worst.
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11) masslib December 15th, 2010 at 5:20 am
I read Sherrod Brown will also vote for it…after talking to his pastor. Gimme a break. We can’t let them fool us with the ole oh, I’m just doing this to help the unemployed(not the 99ers, but still). It’s a scam. They could have gotten the extension without this bs deal.
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12)Bluetoe2 December 15th, 2010 at 5:21 am
In response to allan @ 10 (show text)
Is it possible for a recount. Coleman would have voted for the bill as well. The only difference, his letter would have said “the easiest vote I ever made.”
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13) gvandergrift December 15th, 2010 at 5:27 am
Blue Dog House Dems are enthusiastic!! Dems should reject this bill and wait until January. Give the Tea Party enough rope.
Taxes will rise on those making less than $20,000. The working poor should have voted in November.
If you aren’t prepared to vote for Sarah Palin, your whining and threats are idle.
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14) bluelyon December 15th, 2010 at 5:28 am
In response to masslib @ 11 (show text)
Well, then, I’m so glad I signed his “Open Letter” to Obama. I wonder when I’m going to get my first fundraising email?
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15) ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:29 am
Eric reveals that Julian Assange is ahead in the readers‘ poll for Time Magazine Person of the Year.
Can we have a Firepups’ poll for 2010 Asswipe of the Year? There are lots of choices.
Wet Hanky Al Franken
The Quitter
Mrs. McConnell
Shortride
the Trojan condom
AG Eric Coverup
Others?....
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17) SouthernDragon December 15th, 2010 at 5:30 am
Mornin’, BT, pups
The best democracy money can buy. Didn’t anybody read Palast’s book? I mean, y’all have had 8 years to read it.
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22) masslib December 15th, 2010 at 5:36 am
In response to bluelyon @ 14
Yep, strongly worded letters have become an atm for the so-called liberals in Congress. They write letters, raise money, then vote against our interests anyway.
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23) Shoto December 15th, 2010 at 5:38 am
In response to masslib @ 22 (show text)
Don’t forget the appearances on talking head extravaganzas. I think it’s in their contract.
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Bluetoe2 December 15th, 2010 at 5:39 am
24
Democrat Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire says she will “reluctantly” vote for the bill because all economists that’s she’s talked to says it will stimulate the economy and create jobs and there are so many “good things” in it for the working and middle class.
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chicago dyke December 15th, 2010 at 5:39 am
25
dang. i thought i was harsh. you people are quite shrill and unforgiving.
i like it. ;-)
and i feel vindicated about Franken. so many influential progressives were just so sure that he was going to be a big progressive hero. i took a lot of flack for saying he wasn’t.
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ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:40 am
27
In response to SouthernDragon @ 18 (show text)
Julian Assange would have been ashaned to be Time’s pick. He wouldn’t wipe his derriere with a copy of that rag.
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SouthernDragon December 15th, 2010 at 5:41 am
31
In response to Bluetoe2 @ 24 (show text)
I wanna know why the only economists these people know or talk to are buddies of Larry Summers and Timmeh.
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35) wirerat1 December 15th, 2010 at 5:43 am
Facebook or WikiLeaks.. which is more meaningful. WTH man. Just another example of how the MSM is so far out of touch with the people. “Ignore the guy pulling back the drape and exposing the man behind the curtain… Go look at Facebook.. oohhh..”
So, where are the popular places for ex-pats this time of year? This country is beyond saving. It is on its long descent into hell.
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40) Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 5:47 am
In response to ghostof911 @ 2 (show text)
The Franken letter reads exactly like the usual bullshit from Anthony Weiner, who goes on tv to make every argument against something… just before he caves.
His role seems to be pacifier of the part of the base that pays attention to what the sellouts are doing.
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chicago dyke December 15th, 2010 at 5:49 am
42
eight more bucks in our pockets every week
this is the relevant fact i really wish more amurkins understood. hundreds of thousands for the rich, and barely enough for bus fare for the week for the rest of us.
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43)ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:50 am
In response to Knoxville @ 40 (show text)
Hope somebody on our side is keeping score so all the backstabbing is brought to light when the backstabbers come around asking for support.
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45) pineywoodsfats December 15th, 2010 at 5:52 am
In response to econobuzz @ 32 (show text)
My senator, Harkin, also voted for it. I sent him an email prior to the vote urging him to vote it down. He never acknowledged it.
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46) dhfsfc December 15th, 2010 at 5:52 am
Al Franken is dead to me now. And it does make one wonder who can be trusted. Apparently, no one. They go to Washington and turn into Stepford Wives!
Meanwhile, the poor get poorer.
Henceforth to be known as The Obama Depression.
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51) Bluetoe2 December 15th, 2010 at 5:54 am
In response to wirerat1 @ 35 (show text)
How long before Americans are stepping over bodies in the street?
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52) Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 5:56 am
In response to ghostof911 @ 43 (show text)
Unfortunately, Weiner’s words help give him a pass in the eyes of far too many: He’s really on our side, really, a reasonable guy who says the right things, does nothing but talk about wanting them, and then calms the rest of us as we’re fucked over again and again.
I don’t think that pos is on anyone’s list of worst backstabbers but mine.
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53) SouthernDragon December 15th, 2010 at 5:57 am
Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.
US KIA Afghanistan: 1,434
US KIA Iraq: 4,430
Iraki, Afghan and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M
US MBS 2010: 43,152 and counting
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55) econobuzz December 15th, 2010 at 5:59 am
In response to Knoxville @ 52 (show text)
… and then calms the rest of us as we’re fucked over again and again.
As we’re slipped the weener, so to speak.
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ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 6:00 am
58
In response to Knoxville @ 52 (show text)
The sleaziness makes the backstabbing even worse.
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59) dhfsfc December 15th, 2010 at 6:01 am
I’m proposing a new political strategy. It’s called “Vote with your A**.”
Unless someone gives me a damned good reason to get up off my A** on election day, I am NOT leaving the house. And so far, two years into this disaster, I haven’t been given one good reason to get off my A**.
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Kassandra December 15th, 2010 at 6:06 am
62
In response to lefttown @ 4 (show text)
They’re all lying SOBs. Meanwhile, if this goes thru, Moody’s has said it will downgrade US debt ratings…..so they just HAVE to steal Social Security!!!!!!!
Surely Franken knows this. any “stimulative” effects will rapidly be swallowed by the cuts to social spending.
By now, Fox has convinced the right ( or everyone who isn’t dependent on it) that “it’s a Ponzi Scheme”.
“The bipartisan deal marks a test of how Obama will govern without his Democratic party in control of both houses of Congress. His readiness to reach accommodation with the opposition Republicans likely will set a pattern for the final half his term leading into the 2012 election.”
Senate to vote on package extending Bush tax cuts
We’re going DOWN
I think we’ve been seeing THIS particular “pattern” for the first 2 years as well.
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64) Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 6:08 am
In response to ghostof911 @ 58 (show text)
If Anthony Weiner were to lead a real fight once in a while, I’d be praising him. But that’s not his role.
What Weiner does with the help of the MSM is set himself up as a national leader for people who care about people so that, when the people get screwed, he can hold our hands and lead us through stages of grief.
And people follow him because of all his words words words.
We don’t need someone who doesn’t fight and then, after caving, tells us to be reasonable and leads us through stages of grief. But that’s what he does, again and again and again.
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65) Marion in Savannah December 15th, 2010 at 6:09 am
In response to pineywoodsfats @ 45 (show text)
I sent e-mails to my 2 Senators and my useless Congresscritter as well, and requested a reply. [crickets]
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66) econobuzz December 15th, 2010 at 6:10 am
In response to Marion in Savannah @ 65 (show text)
It may have been better to shit in an envelope and send it.
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67) RevBev December 15th, 2010 at 6:13 am
Our Pres. meeting with big execs. to talk about our financial outlook.
Did anyone hear Orin Hatch yesterday? He hates the bill….but big rants re. the “death” tax. Could not say enough about how bad it is….estates belong to the family.
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econobuzz December 15th, 2010 at 6:16 am
68
In response to RevBev @ 67 (show text)
Our Pres. meeting with big execs. to talk about our financial outlook.
He is a bad man.
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terryd303 December 15th, 2010 at 6:19 am
70
Like those above, I’m on to PINO (Progressive in Name Only) politicians who protest for us in public and vote against us in private. The question, for years now, has been what to do about it. If we would have made it a priority I believe we could have saved Grayson or Feingold.
We are a borderline Failed State. It calls for dramatic action if we are going to reverse this march to fascism.
We laugh at the tea party and point out their illiterate signs—but they have put their party on notice. We have not. We’re still arguing over Obama’s chess moves. Someone of us is always there to give us the “lesser of two evils” admonishment.
We need leaders with passion rather than a vocabulary. Bloggers like Jane, Rachel, Randi, etc. can aid and abet but they can’t lead. BTW, how many people give Nader credit today for calling out Obama as the corporatist he is back in 2008?
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gvandergrift December 15th, 2010 at 6:24 am
71
Did you ever know anybody who paid a dime in estate taxes?
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72) bailey2739 December 15th, 2010 at 6:25 am
Wonderful, Jane. I just donated, again! Afraid about all it will do is keep a few of you in coffee, but I believe you do need to hear back from us. It’s unfathomable to me how relentless you are!
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73) satoram December 15th, 2010 at 6:26 am
Well, at least we know the price it costs to extend any unemployment benefits:
defunding social security
billions in tax breaks for the rich
At least that was the price THIS time.
Who knows what they’ll want next time–but at least we know that our President will be more than willing to pay it.
And all the talkers who sound tough will just go right along.
They can all go to hell.
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Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 6:31 am
74
In response to terryd303 @ 70 (show text)
I’m not so sure that saving Grayson would have been the best way to use time and limited resources. He’s ok, but he consistently targets Republicans rather than take on the leaders of the Democratic Party for selling out. Then he voted in favor of their POS health care bill.
Progressives do have limited resources. The goal should be to target sellouts and enablers within the Democratic Party.
Run an ad in Weiner’s district “All talk. No fight.”
Demand that the local Democratic Party leadership in Jim Cooper’s district explain their decision to run Jim Cooper on the ballot again and again and then put up Cooper’s pathetic voting record.
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Kassandra December 15th, 2010 at 6:32 am
75
In response to pineywoodsfats @ 45 (show text)
My Senator was one of the only ones who voted against it. Bingaman.
I was surprised as he was one of the “Gang of six’. BUT he was also the only one with his head in his hands when the bill came out without a public option.
Jeff knows what’s going on, he’s been up there for a long time.
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masslib December 15th, 2010 at 6:33 am
76
In response to Knoxville @ 74 (show text)
I think Liberals and progressives need to start focusing on issues only. Not this or that pol. For the most part, they will all sell us down the river unless the electorate is motivated about the issues.
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Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 6:38 am
77
In response to masslib @ 76 (show text)
How much more on board could the electorate have been for a public option? The right decisions don’t make themselves. The pols who have to fight need to feel the pressure to do something more than talk and cave.
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Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 6:42 am
78
In response to masslib @ 76 (show text)
Obama and Bill Clinton have done everything to get Obama’s base to like the idea of extending the Bush tax cuts rather than do anything to make the electorate – including the Republicans’ base – understand just how bad an idea it really is.
The pols have to feel pressure, or we’ll lose fights on issues again and again.
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masslib December 15th, 2010 at 6:45 am
80
In response to Knoxville @ 78 (show text)
But every single time the pols play us on the issues. Financing campaigns hasn’t helped liberals one iota. Of course you pressure the pols, but liberals have been too knee jerk happy to shower a politician with love for talking the talk before seeing if they will actually walk the walk.
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syborg December 15th, 2010 at 6:45 am
81
Its just like the Consumer Product Safety Commission, who wont set limits on cadmium, instead letting industry police itself. Our representatives tell us that yes, the tax cuts for the rich, like cadmium, are really bad for us and will probably give us cancer, but there are people that really need a drink and they can’t figure out any other way to get them water without poisoning us all with the aforementioned cadmium tainted drinking glasses…BRILLIANT!
I too have sent several emails to the people I once foolishly thought represented me and had my best interests at heart. And like many of you, have also been ignored and received no response. Today I’ll send an email to Sen. Franken, telling him I’m removing myself from his email list and that he can go piss up a rope with his best-est country music singin’ buddy, Orrin Hatch.
George Carlin seems to have had it right all along…
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masslib December 15th, 2010 at 6:46 am
82
House Democrats ready to fold:
thehill.com/homenews/house/133695-for-dems-the-tax-fight-now-is-about-saving-face
Apparently, Americans are so “excited” about the giveaways that they just have to say yes.
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masslib December 15th, 2010 at 6:52 am
83
Oh but thank goodness the supposed ice between Obama and K street is thawing:
thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/133693-thaw-seen-in-relations-with-obama
Good stuff.
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jedimsnbcko19 December 15th, 2010 at 6:54 am
84
In response to oldgold @ 57 (show text)
oldgold
that can you tell us all how POLLS that make the rich, richer always get accepted
and polls that help the middle class get rejected.
oldgold please find some polls that show how dems feel about the issues below:
1st Obama endorses the Bush agenda of spying on and killing americans
2nd Obama attacks Unions (the F! the UAW moment screams republican)
3rd Obama double downs on Bush Wars, (now they are Obama wars)
4th Obama attacks Teacher Unions (teacher unions now hate OBAMA)
5th Obama does not attack the Banks? he bails them out? (sorta like what the GOP does)
6th Obama passes the Bob Dole Health Care Bill (Bob Dole is a republican)
7th Obama kills the Public Option
8Th Obama kills Drug Importation
9Th Obama APPOINTS an insurance executive to manage his health care Bill
10th Obama does not APPOINT Dawn Johnsen
11th Obama hand picks the cat food commission to destroy Social Security
12th Obama supports Blanche Lincoln, a candidate who hates Unions, and has no chance of winning
13 Guantanomo still open for business
14.Patriot Act renewed
15. renditions continue
16. Bernanke reappointed
17. Americans targeted for assassination
18 Obama is all for sending more USA jobs off shore
19 Obama is for tax cuts for the RICH!20. Obama and the TSA porno Scandal
21 Obama freezes federal wages for 2 years
22. OBAMA TARP Funds for Legal Services for Foreclosure Victims Blocked By Treasury
23. Obama lowers estate tax for the rich
24. Obama tax bill of 2010 GUTS Social Security
Oldgold we want to compare our polls with your polls on the issues above
every dem needs to know, what they face in 2012 during primary season.
only you can save them OLDGOLD
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lefttown December 15th, 2010 at 7:04 am
85
In response to oldgold @ 57 (show text)
And I can just imagine how they phrased the question: “Do you approve of the package if it includes help for the unemployed?” Or something like that. Reminds me of another recent poll that asked if the people trusted Obama or the Republicans to solve our nation’s problems. That’s like asking if you prefer solid crap (Obama) or diarrhea (Republicans) for breakfast. (Results: Surprise. Surprise. The people polled preferred solid crap).
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klynn December 15th, 2010 at 7:07 am
86
I want to sign a petition against the payroll tax relief. I want to have payroll taxes.
My taxes will go up significantly otherwise.
I want to protect SS too.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 7:15 am
87
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.” Groucho Marx. Which makes Obama a master politician. Peace
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Fractal December 15th, 2010 at 7:15 am
88
In response to allan @ 10 (show text)
oh, believe me, he knows the WH deal is a piece of shit. His office was bombarded with faxes from 99ers who reminded him the deal does nothing for them. My faxes to him & other Dem Senators warned him Obama is dismantling the New Deal in front of our eyes: repealing a huge chunk of the estate tax & setting us up for destruction of Social Security.
Author on National Pentagon Radio this morning admitted the estate tax “is the most progressive tax we have.”
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victoria December 15th, 2010 at 7:19 am
89
Rep. Rush Holt has a good post at Huffpo in which he lays out the dangers of the 2% tax holiday. He says, and I know this is true, that once we start using federal funds to make up for the payroll tax, Social Security will be on the same financial footing as the National Endowment for the Arts. Obama and the worthless Democrats (most of them) that we have elected are going to see us all in the poorhouse if we don’t stop them.
Someone in the comments above pointed out something very true and completely overlooked by us civilized, elite progressives is that we should be following the model of the Teabaggers and putting the GD fear of god in the Dems.
I don’t think it is going to happen unless we take to the streets and misbehave. Maybe we should picket in front of our local television and radio studios. Force them to cover us or not let them in in the damn door. I don’t know how we are going to get the attention of our Reps and Senators, and spread the word about the real and present danger to Social Security if we don’t put some skin into the game.
Has it always been this bad, or have Obama and the current crop of Democrats gone absolutely batshit crazy?
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 7:19 am
90
In response to klynn @ 86 (show text)
I agree. I’d sign that petition, too. Citizens don’t know what a devil’s bargain this is. POS.
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 7:20 am
91
I refuse to watch O’Donnell and boost this administration shill’s ratings.
Jane, can’t you go on Rachel or Keith instead?
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Fractal December 15th, 2010 at 7:21 am
92
In response to oldgold @ 57 (show text)
oldgold, I haven’t looked at the Pew results yet. Wonder how they defined “liberals.” We often forget that we pay more attention to the truth and the details here at the Lake. Apparently Obama still has the “liberals” fooled.
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 7:23 am
93
In response to victoria @ 89 (show text)
Has it always been this bad, or have Obama and the current crop of Democrats gone absolutely batshit crazy?
They’ve been bought off just like Sarah Palin.
I’ve never seen it “this bad,” and I’ve been around for a long time. Believe me the RushGlennSarah’s are currently indoctrinating the Tea Partiers to ENJOY giving up their Soc Sec & Medicare. Don’t count on the Tea Party to protest it at all.
But yes: to get anything to change, we need to do much much more than just the current stuff we do, which is mainly blogging, sending letters & emails, & making phone calls. All that stuff should continue, but we do need to take it to the streets, and not in some tamed down rally like the one in Oct set up by the media to pacify the leftwing – the one that Stewart & Colbert did, which imo was a senseless waste of time.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 7:26 am
94
In response to LibWingofLibWing @ 91 (show text)
O’Donnell is part of the problem, not part of the solution. And he has been for 30+ years. Although he is well loved by his bosses the oligarchy. Peace
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 7:29 am
95
In response to dhfsfc @ 59 (show text)
That’s giving up. Vote. That doesn’t mean you have to vote for bad candidates, even if only bad candidates are running. Do what Jesse says, vote for “none of the above.” You can write it in.
Doing nothing sends no message. Doing what Jesse says sends one.
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syborg December 15th, 2010 at 7:29 am
96
In response to LibWingofLibWing @ 91 (show text)
I second that request. I won’t watch that tool O’Donnell.
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UnkaWillbur December 15th, 2010 at 7:29 am
97
In response to victoria @ 89 (show text)
I don’t think it is going to happen unless we take to the streets and misbehave.
We could take to the polls and misbehave. They don’t care about what’s moral; They don’t care about our money; They don’t care if we don’t vote. but seriously threaten to torpedo their nice little kabuki-show elections and you might have some leverage. Of course, that’s been pooh-poohed as “unserious” by the “serious” people of the blogovillage…
I just think street demonstrations are largely irrelevant in an age when the media openly does the bidding of its corporate owners and their class. They simply don’t report or under-report it, always with a “silly season” slant. Of course real, disruptive vandalism and damage would make a point, but there’s not enough progressive activists in the U.S. who have enough skin in the game to provoke the response that would generate.
What we need is activism that disrupts the core of their business-as-usual and, for god’s sake, has some passion, fire and conviction to not caving on core principles.
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Fractal December 15th, 2010 at 7:33 am
98
In response to RevBev @ 79 (show text)
Thanks RevBev. I missed this story. Carolyn Lerner nominated to be the new defender for federal govt whistleblowers. Folks at POGO and GAP wondered why it took two whole years to get somebody nominated to a vacant position.
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 7:35 am
99
In response to Bluetoe2 @ 69 (show text)
I agree with the intent of what you say EXCEPT I take umbrage at calling low information people “morons.” They are not dumb. They are low information due to no fault of their own. The plutocrats have worked hard for a few generations to deny the masses the information they need so they can make informed decisions. Instead they want to market them with manipulation, and not just in politics.
It’s not the dispositions of Americans that have caused them to be this way. It’s the situation they have been put into. It’s hard to be an energetic, information seeking researcher that thinks critically when you are exhausted from working two shit jobs to barely pay your bills, depressed because you have little hope for you and your children’s future, and worried about losing your jobs and your health care. You come home from work and just need to veg.
Don’t blame the victim.
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Fractal December 15th, 2010 at 7:42 am
100
In response to Fractal @ 92 (show text)
oldgold linked to this Pew Public Policy (PPP) poll showing “liberals” support Obama’s piece of shit taxcut bonuses deal by 65% to 20%.
The internal sample splits are somewhat illuminating: they included only 101 “liberals” causing a margin of error of 12% for that sample.
PPP gave no separate splits for support & opposition to individual elements of the deal such as the payroll tax drainage of Social Security (widely opposed by all segments in the WaPo/ABC poll yesterday), estate tax giveaway, taxcut bonuses for jillionaires, etc.
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 7:43 am
101
In response to UnkaWillbur @ 97 (show text)
I have an acquaintance who now is saying that he is thinking the unthinkable. I’m not comfortable even repeating what he is saying. This guy is not a radical or an anarchist. But he is saying that we need to target the plutocrats themselves, not the politicians they hire. I don’t think he is serious in this unthinkable stuff he is thinking about. I think he is just frustrated.
I think he’s right about whom we should target. I don’t think he is right about the unthinkable part.
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Kassandra December 15th, 2010 at 7:43 am
102
In response to klynn @ 86 (show text)
You’re right, every other tax will automatically go up
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victoria December 15th, 2010 at 7:48 am
103
In response to onitgoes @ 93 (show text)
I agree about the Stewart/Colbert rallies. Worthless. What a wast of all those bodies. That’s when they should have handed out the torches and pitchforks.
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victoria December 15th, 2010 at 7:49 am
104
In response to victoria @ 103 (show text)
sorry – waste
I think about the unthinkable more and more these days, Lib. I feel so damn helpless, but that is exactly what they want.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 7:53 am
105
In response to LibWingofLibWing @ 101 (show text)
Please suggest to your friend that the moment he/she uses violence he/she has lost. The oligarchy thrives on violence. Why else do you suppose they would keep all the best and biggest weapons for themselves and their paid military agents to use? The way to beat the oligarchy is through non-cooperation. Start by assuming that most of the information that you read or see on tv is one big fat lie fed to us by the oligarchy. Then do the exact opposite of what is suggested by them that you do. For example: the FED is our friend. Peace
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UnkaWillbur December 15th, 2010 at 7:58 am
106
Well, violence to people is never the way to go. It simply doesn’t make you any friends and, at least for me, there is a core-principle to defend there: That violence must be the absolute last resort. besides, they’ll only “gun up” behind private security and tall fences.
There are endless ways to disrupt the processes and economics of the ruling class without resorting to violence and the progressive movement have tried a not a one of them. It’s been to busy making satisfying but fruitless phone calls, writing angry but unread letters or “signing” online petitions that rarely even get printed out.
Start by disrupting their elections. Yep, divide the (d) vote in presidential primaries, depress turnout, cause losses if they don’t listen (and start recruiting candidates now from within the movement to run as independents pushing the progressive line). Run candidates that have no chance of winning, 2 or 3 in a district, whose sole job is to push the frame to the left, even if they’re destined to lose.
Punish them economically. If you want street level activism, go blockade Walmarts and banks, investment firms and Insurance companies. Don’t let them do their business as usual. organize a “Withdraw your money from commercial banks” day. Stop worrying about your credit score and your mortgage and stop giving them money.
Etc. etc. Ad Nauseum. But, like I said above, I just don’t see that there’s enough skin in the game for most comfortably lower upper-class progressive activists to make those kind of commitments. It might cost them a couple points on their mortgage, or their budding career, or whatever.
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pineywoodsfats December 15th, 2010 at 8:02 am
107
In response to econobuzz @ 66 (show text)
Yeah, maybe they woulda thought it was the stench of cash.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 8:06 am
108
In response to UnkaWillbur @ 106 (show text)
An interesting factoid this: The American Revolution was supported by about 10% of the population. 40% supported England and 50% didn’t much care which side won the rebellion. Which goes to show that it only takes the participation of a very few people to overthrow the oligarchy. Peace
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 8:14 am
109
In response to victoria @ 103 (show text)
Agree, but, as you know (I’m sure), they did NOT hand out the pitchforks at that worthless rally. It was held specifically to be a SOP to the “left,” in answer to Glenn Beck’s & Sarah Palin’s tent show revival the month before.
Bought and paid for by the Oligarchy to encourage the disinfranchised to make believe that we have any say or relevance to the running of this country anymore. It was a chimera fairy tale, EXACTLY like Glenn Beck’s bullshit…
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 8:19 am
110
In response to UnkaWillbur @ 106 (show text)
Very good suggestions. Thanks for that. Definitely something to ponder.
The ONLY reason why Tea Party “rallies” get the media attention they do is because the Oligarchs have instructed their corporate-owned fascist media to “report” on them. So it kinda-sorta *looks* like the Tea Partiers have the right idea and are gaining traction. Sadly they aren’t, though. Almost ALL of their rallies have been carefully orchestrated and manipulated by the Oligarchs – in this case, David Koch, Rupert Murdoch, et al – to say & do exactly what the Oligarchs want they say & do. I realize that the Tea Partiers, themselves, *believe* that it’s all grassroots, and that the rallies are *really* about what they believe in… but sadly, it’s all been bought & paid for by the Oligarchs. And whatever “opinions or beliefs” that Tea Partiers have are of little consquence to the Oligarchs, who are going to what THEY want to do, no matter what.
Taking it to the streets can still have value, but much less so in this day and age. I don’t advocate violence, but peaceful protest can still have a place at times.
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 8:24 am
111
In response to LibWingofLibWing @ 101 (show text)
I agree that we need to shift more attention to the Oligarchy and how they are ripping us all off… playing “games” with politicians is ever more clearly becoming a mug’s game. It’s not worth much to protest to politicians anymore because clearly they are taking their marching orders for the wealthy. All the pols do is tell us “soothing” things, at best, whilst they actively strive to enrich the wealthy and powerful. THIS is not going to change, at least not by the traditional tactics of “working within the system.” The system is rigged.
I do not advocate the unthinkable, but I definitely understand why some may feel the way they do. We HAVE been royally ripped off, and the obscenely wealthy continue to rip us off even more. When one considers the obscenity of their riches, one tends to get pretty upset, to say the least. Their gluttionous greed is really out of control, and one wonders how it’s all going to end up.
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Mauimom December 15th, 2010 at 8:27 am
112
In response to ghostof911 @ 2 (show text)
Remember back during the debate/debacle on the Health Care Bill, we had a diary up here that was a chart, listing each of the “pro” points Obam & Company were touting for the bill, and refuting/showing that each was not true?
Is there a way any of the “experts” here could do such a thing?
I know it’s probably too late, but it would be useful to have this “yeah,but” or “oh no it doesn’t” list for use in calls to Congress or “discussions” with friends/family members.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 8:28 am
113
In response to onitgoes @ 110 (show text)
Peaceful protests are fantastic. But sit-downs in public and private buildings (like banks and courthouses) and clogging up the highways by stopping your car in the middle of them (take two or three friends with cars and stop traffic in all the lanes at once) really gets the medias attention. Keep in mind that there are always consequences to your actions. Like being arrested for disturbing the Peace. Peace
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Mauimom December 15th, 2010 at 8:30 am
114
In response to ghostof911 @ 15 (show text)
Lawrence O’Donnell
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hektor6766 December 15th, 2010 at 8:33 am
115
Because O’Donnell makes me want to vomit or kick in my TV screen, I hadn’t watched the original segment. You must have edited out the clips where he lectures progressives on how Congress works and how naive progressives are.
Goodbye Sherrod Brown. Steve Driehaus will be the last Democrat I voted for. We NEED an insurrectionist movement like he Tea Party is for the right, or must move to a new party.
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oldgold December 15th, 2010 at 8:43 am
116
In response to Fractal @ 100 (show text)
Of course, I specifically noted the liberal sample was small.
There is a NBC/ WSJ poll coming out later today. The results will be interesting.
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BMcGarth December 15th, 2010 at 9:00 am
117
Look,If you make 25K-60K/yr you have no representation in the congress,it’s that simple.And if you are below that bracket you are off the radar.
You can listen to all the millionaire Senators & Representatives go on the so called progressives radio shows to mollify…er con you that they did something good for you.And they will play it like usual that the GOP don’t care about ya,truth of the matter is that the Dems don’t give a damn about ya either.
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papau December 15th, 2010 at 9:02 am
118
Was Lawrence O’Donnell gloating as he said that the progressives – the left – in the House would have to – and were – walking those “we won’t vote for the Obama tax give-away to the rich tax cut” calls from last week back into a vote for the Obama bill unchanged?
I swear he got off on his “no public option – the progressives will not hold tough” prediction being correct, and I suspect he is having the same joy with this failure of the left.
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papau December 15th, 2010 at 9:16 am
119
In response to ghostof911 @ 3 (show text)
Chavez asks the democratically elected parliament to grant him 12 months of special powers as allowed by his constitution.
Seems he is playing by the rules of law – in contrast to those in this country that stop vote counting in 2000, go to war on lies, and end bill of rights freedoms by claiming security requires that ending of rights. I don’t like rule by degree – but many democracies have that rule and we do not call the leaders dictators. But he will face opposition (read CIA/right wing US rich funded) accusations of behaving like a dictator, of course.
He has floods and 140,000 homeless to deal with during the next year, but of more interest will be the degrees issued re housing, land, finances and security – I suspect that those on the right will not like these new laws that parliament is allowing him to give birth to.
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papau December 15th, 2010 at 9:17 am
120
In response to ghostof911 @ 2 (show text)
Franken sounds just like Joe Lieberman – just replace Minn with Conn and you can easily imagine Joe sending the letter.
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jedimsnbcko19 December 15th, 2010 at 9:26 am
121
In response to oldgold @ 116 (show text)
Polls, Polls, Polls, everywhere! you are kidding right?
we have millionaires in the senate voting to cut their taxes
we have POLLS created by corporations, that are own by billionaires.
WOW!!! what are the POLLS going to say?
let me take a wild guess
The american people want RICH PEOPLE taxes to be cut
and middle class americans don’t mind their taxes going up.
you got to love the BANANA REPUBLIC that is the USA!
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Mauimom December 15th, 2010 at 10:39 am
122
Jane, Lawrence was relatively “nice” to you, and he let you talk quite a bit.
Think his MSNBC overlords gave him a talking-to? What do you think accounts for this [no doubt momentary] improved Lawrence O’Donnell?
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
123
Thanks, everybody, for the comments about the unthinkable. As I said, I think the guy is just frustrated.
Me? I’m committed to non-violence. I’m convinced that violence is just another “ends justify the means” type of thing. The problem is that the usage of certain means changes the users. Eventually their ends change too. This is how Anakin Skywalkers become Darth Vaders.
But I also am convinced that we need to take serious non-violent action against the plutocrats. The one that I like the most right now is workers refusing to leave their jobs when a company wants to shut down a factory. I like it that workers have occupied factories. I think we need more of this kind of bottom up action that is about fighting (non-violently) against the uber-wealthy.
I will talk to my acquaintance and be sure he is not really thinking the unthinkable.
This one comes from Firedoglake, regarding an interview done by assbite Lawrence O'Donnell.
I'm not posting the video here, just the commentary.
Despite what the fake polls, the mainstream media, and the lying Obama administration--most Americans do NOT support the tax cut deal.
These comments are an example of the hostility towards Obama that he created by selling out to the rich.
by Blue Texan
Wed, Dec 15, 2010
Early Morning Swim: Jane Talks Tax Cut Deal,
DREAM Act on Lawrence O’Donnell
Meanwhile, the Teabaggers are not happy.
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123 Responses to “Early Morning Swim: Jane Talks Tax Cut Deal, DREAM Act on Lawrence O’Donnell”
UnkaWillbur December 15th, 2010 at 4:52 am
Again, the Right knows how to bully its politicians while Progressives seem to only know how to cave.
Too bad progressive activists gave up their only leverage when their “leadership” announced on national TV that they weren’t serious about ever challenging the party’s power-structure. The right-wingers controlling the Democratic party now know they can safely ignore the progressives and progressives will just bend over when told.
The Right-wing will keep getting it’s way, because its activists still scare right-wing politicians, while progressives play a keystone-cops game of politics.
But hey, it’s certainly getting that progressive blogosphere’s “leaders” lots of national air time….
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2) ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 4:54 am
Letter received yesterday from back-stabber Al Franken.
Dear ghost,
'A lot of people are unhappy that the President punted on first down, and I’m one of them. Extending the Bush tax breaks for the super-wealthy will explode our deficit over the next two years without doing anything to help our economy. It’s bad policy.
But for Minnesota’s middle class, struggling to get by in a tough economy, there’s a lot in this bill that will really help: tax cuts for working families, a payroll tax holiday, energy tax credits, and the extension of Recovery Act initiatives that are already making a difference.'
Eff you, you LOSER!
Will be calling the back-stabbing Senator’s office today, asking that he NEVER contact me again....
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4) lefttown December 15th, 2010 at 5:07 am
4
In response to ghostof911 @ 2
I read that POS Franken’s letter, too. Oh, he writes, it was just the hardest vote he’s ever taken! Grab a hankie and put Al on the fainting couch. He proceeds to deceive the people, by telling them what goodies he’s gotten for them with his “yes” vote: A payroll tax “holiday” (he doesn’t mention SS depletion), a tax cut for all (eight more bucks in our pockets every week–all hail Al!), and help for the unemployed (which Grassley said they would have voted for anyway). What an Obama-kissing loser Traitor Al’s turned out to be.
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5) Bluetoe2 December 15th, 2010 at 5:12 am
Franken’s been in the Senate for what, 1 year? Certainly his first “hardest” vote of many more to follow. The Senate millionaires club is there to protect the rich and privileged and preserve the status quo.
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6) ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:14 am
In response to lefttown @ 4 (show text)
Al Franken is a POS Norm Coleman-in-drag. What a filthy sellout he turned out to be.
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8) Revroe December 15th, 2010 at 5:16 am
This gang of Democrats come from the city of “Cavealot”. All spineless, all babies. If I see one more filthy politician crying on stage, I think I’ll puke.
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9) ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:16 am
In response to ghostof911 @ 6
Correction. What filthy sellouts they all turned out to be.
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10)allan December 15th, 2010 at 5:17 am
Is it possible that Franken doesn’t understand how awful this bill is?
How much of the kind of information we see on FDL every day, and take for granted, is known inside the DC bubble? Any Franken staffers reading this, please speak up for your boss.
Otherwise we have to assume the worst.
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11) masslib December 15th, 2010 at 5:20 am
I read Sherrod Brown will also vote for it…after talking to his pastor. Gimme a break. We can’t let them fool us with the ole oh, I’m just doing this to help the unemployed(not the 99ers, but still). It’s a scam. They could have gotten the extension without this bs deal.
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12)Bluetoe2 December 15th, 2010 at 5:21 am
In response to allan @ 10 (show text)
Is it possible for a recount. Coleman would have voted for the bill as well. The only difference, his letter would have said “the easiest vote I ever made.”
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13) gvandergrift December 15th, 2010 at 5:27 am
Blue Dog House Dems are enthusiastic!! Dems should reject this bill and wait until January. Give the Tea Party enough rope.
Taxes will rise on those making less than $20,000. The working poor should have voted in November.
If you aren’t prepared to vote for Sarah Palin, your whining and threats are idle.
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14) bluelyon December 15th, 2010 at 5:28 am
In response to masslib @ 11 (show text)
Well, then, I’m so glad I signed his “Open Letter” to Obama. I wonder when I’m going to get my first fundraising email?
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15) ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:29 am
Eric reveals that Julian Assange is ahead in the readers‘ poll for Time Magazine Person of the Year.
Can we have a Firepups’ poll for 2010 Asswipe of the Year? There are lots of choices.
Wet Hanky Al Franken
The Quitter
Mrs. McConnell
Shortride
the Trojan condom
AG Eric Coverup
Others?....
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17) SouthernDragon December 15th, 2010 at 5:30 am
Mornin’, BT, pups
The best democracy money can buy. Didn’t anybody read Palast’s book? I mean, y’all have had 8 years to read it.
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22) masslib December 15th, 2010 at 5:36 am
In response to bluelyon @ 14
Yep, strongly worded letters have become an atm for the so-called liberals in Congress. They write letters, raise money, then vote against our interests anyway.
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23) Shoto December 15th, 2010 at 5:38 am
In response to masslib @ 22 (show text)
Don’t forget the appearances on talking head extravaganzas. I think it’s in their contract.
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Bluetoe2 December 15th, 2010 at 5:39 am
24
Democrat Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire says she will “reluctantly” vote for the bill because all economists that’s she’s talked to says it will stimulate the economy and create jobs and there are so many “good things” in it for the working and middle class.
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chicago dyke December 15th, 2010 at 5:39 am
25
dang. i thought i was harsh. you people are quite shrill and unforgiving.
i like it. ;-)
and i feel vindicated about Franken. so many influential progressives were just so sure that he was going to be a big progressive hero. i took a lot of flack for saying he wasn’t.
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ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:40 am
27
In response to SouthernDragon @ 18 (show text)
Julian Assange would have been ashaned to be Time’s pick. He wouldn’t wipe his derriere with a copy of that rag.
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SouthernDragon December 15th, 2010 at 5:41 am
31
In response to Bluetoe2 @ 24 (show text)
I wanna know why the only economists these people know or talk to are buddies of Larry Summers and Timmeh.
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35) wirerat1 December 15th, 2010 at 5:43 am
Facebook or WikiLeaks.. which is more meaningful. WTH man. Just another example of how the MSM is so far out of touch with the people. “Ignore the guy pulling back the drape and exposing the man behind the curtain… Go look at Facebook.. oohhh..”
So, where are the popular places for ex-pats this time of year? This country is beyond saving. It is on its long descent into hell.
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40) Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 5:47 am
In response to ghostof911 @ 2 (show text)
The Franken letter reads exactly like the usual bullshit from Anthony Weiner, who goes on tv to make every argument against something… just before he caves.
His role seems to be pacifier of the part of the base that pays attention to what the sellouts are doing.
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chicago dyke December 15th, 2010 at 5:49 am
42
eight more bucks in our pockets every week
this is the relevant fact i really wish more amurkins understood. hundreds of thousands for the rich, and barely enough for bus fare for the week for the rest of us.
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43)ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 5:50 am
In response to Knoxville @ 40 (show text)
Hope somebody on our side is keeping score so all the backstabbing is brought to light when the backstabbers come around asking for support.
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45) pineywoodsfats December 15th, 2010 at 5:52 am
In response to econobuzz @ 32 (show text)
My senator, Harkin, also voted for it. I sent him an email prior to the vote urging him to vote it down. He never acknowledged it.
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46) dhfsfc December 15th, 2010 at 5:52 am
Al Franken is dead to me now. And it does make one wonder who can be trusted. Apparently, no one. They go to Washington and turn into Stepford Wives!
Meanwhile, the poor get poorer.
Henceforth to be known as The Obama Depression.
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51) Bluetoe2 December 15th, 2010 at 5:54 am
In response to wirerat1 @ 35 (show text)
How long before Americans are stepping over bodies in the street?
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52) Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 5:56 am
In response to ghostof911 @ 43 (show text)
Unfortunately, Weiner’s words help give him a pass in the eyes of far too many: He’s really on our side, really, a reasonable guy who says the right things, does nothing but talk about wanting them, and then calms the rest of us as we’re fucked over again and again.
I don’t think that pos is on anyone’s list of worst backstabbers but mine.
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53) SouthernDragon December 15th, 2010 at 5:57 am
Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.
US KIA Afghanistan: 1,434
US KIA Iraq: 4,430
Iraki, Afghan and Pakistani casualties: estimates vary to over 1.5M
US MBS 2010: 43,152 and counting
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55) econobuzz December 15th, 2010 at 5:59 am
In response to Knoxville @ 52 (show text)
… and then calms the rest of us as we’re fucked over again and again.
As we’re slipped the weener, so to speak.
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ghostof911 December 15th, 2010 at 6:00 am
58
In response to Knoxville @ 52 (show text)
The sleaziness makes the backstabbing even worse.
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59) dhfsfc December 15th, 2010 at 6:01 am
I’m proposing a new political strategy. It’s called “Vote with your A**.”
Unless someone gives me a damned good reason to get up off my A** on election day, I am NOT leaving the house. And so far, two years into this disaster, I haven’t been given one good reason to get off my A**.
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Kassandra December 15th, 2010 at 6:06 am
62
In response to lefttown @ 4 (show text)
They’re all lying SOBs. Meanwhile, if this goes thru, Moody’s has said it will downgrade US debt ratings…..so they just HAVE to steal Social Security!!!!!!!
Surely Franken knows this. any “stimulative” effects will rapidly be swallowed by the cuts to social spending.
By now, Fox has convinced the right ( or everyone who isn’t dependent on it) that “it’s a Ponzi Scheme”.
“The bipartisan deal marks a test of how Obama will govern without his Democratic party in control of both houses of Congress. His readiness to reach accommodation with the opposition Republicans likely will set a pattern for the final half his term leading into the 2012 election.”
Senate to vote on package extending Bush tax cuts
We’re going DOWN
I think we’ve been seeing THIS particular “pattern” for the first 2 years as well.
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64) Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 6:08 am
In response to ghostof911 @ 58 (show text)
If Anthony Weiner were to lead a real fight once in a while, I’d be praising him. But that’s not his role.
What Weiner does with the help of the MSM is set himself up as a national leader for people who care about people so that, when the people get screwed, he can hold our hands and lead us through stages of grief.
And people follow him because of all his words words words.
We don’t need someone who doesn’t fight and then, after caving, tells us to be reasonable and leads us through stages of grief. But that’s what he does, again and again and again.
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65) Marion in Savannah December 15th, 2010 at 6:09 am
In response to pineywoodsfats @ 45 (show text)
I sent e-mails to my 2 Senators and my useless Congresscritter as well, and requested a reply. [crickets]
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66) econobuzz December 15th, 2010 at 6:10 am
In response to Marion in Savannah @ 65 (show text)
It may have been better to shit in an envelope and send it.
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67) RevBev December 15th, 2010 at 6:13 am
Our Pres. meeting with big execs. to talk about our financial outlook.
Did anyone hear Orin Hatch yesterday? He hates the bill….but big rants re. the “death” tax. Could not say enough about how bad it is….estates belong to the family.
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econobuzz December 15th, 2010 at 6:16 am
68
In response to RevBev @ 67 (show text)
Our Pres. meeting with big execs. to talk about our financial outlook.
He is a bad man.
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terryd303 December 15th, 2010 at 6:19 am
70
Like those above, I’m on to PINO (Progressive in Name Only) politicians who protest for us in public and vote against us in private. The question, for years now, has been what to do about it. If we would have made it a priority I believe we could have saved Grayson or Feingold.
We are a borderline Failed State. It calls for dramatic action if we are going to reverse this march to fascism.
We laugh at the tea party and point out their illiterate signs—but they have put their party on notice. We have not. We’re still arguing over Obama’s chess moves. Someone of us is always there to give us the “lesser of two evils” admonishment.
We need leaders with passion rather than a vocabulary. Bloggers like Jane, Rachel, Randi, etc. can aid and abet but they can’t lead. BTW, how many people give Nader credit today for calling out Obama as the corporatist he is back in 2008?
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gvandergrift December 15th, 2010 at 6:24 am
71
Did you ever know anybody who paid a dime in estate taxes?
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72) bailey2739 December 15th, 2010 at 6:25 am
Wonderful, Jane. I just donated, again! Afraid about all it will do is keep a few of you in coffee, but I believe you do need to hear back from us. It’s unfathomable to me how relentless you are!
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73) satoram December 15th, 2010 at 6:26 am
Well, at least we know the price it costs to extend any unemployment benefits:
defunding social security
billions in tax breaks for the rich
At least that was the price THIS time.
Who knows what they’ll want next time–but at least we know that our President will be more than willing to pay it.
And all the talkers who sound tough will just go right along.
They can all go to hell.
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Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 6:31 am
74
In response to terryd303 @ 70 (show text)
I’m not so sure that saving Grayson would have been the best way to use time and limited resources. He’s ok, but he consistently targets Republicans rather than take on the leaders of the Democratic Party for selling out. Then he voted in favor of their POS health care bill.
Progressives do have limited resources. The goal should be to target sellouts and enablers within the Democratic Party.
Run an ad in Weiner’s district “All talk. No fight.”
Demand that the local Democratic Party leadership in Jim Cooper’s district explain their decision to run Jim Cooper on the ballot again and again and then put up Cooper’s pathetic voting record.
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Kassandra December 15th, 2010 at 6:32 am
75
In response to pineywoodsfats @ 45 (show text)
My Senator was one of the only ones who voted against it. Bingaman.
I was surprised as he was one of the “Gang of six’. BUT he was also the only one with his head in his hands when the bill came out without a public option.
Jeff knows what’s going on, he’s been up there for a long time.
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masslib December 15th, 2010 at 6:33 am
76
In response to Knoxville @ 74 (show text)
I think Liberals and progressives need to start focusing on issues only. Not this or that pol. For the most part, they will all sell us down the river unless the electorate is motivated about the issues.
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Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 6:38 am
77
In response to masslib @ 76 (show text)
How much more on board could the electorate have been for a public option? The right decisions don’t make themselves. The pols who have to fight need to feel the pressure to do something more than talk and cave.
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Knoxville December 15th, 2010 at 6:42 am
78
In response to masslib @ 76 (show text)
Obama and Bill Clinton have done everything to get Obama’s base to like the idea of extending the Bush tax cuts rather than do anything to make the electorate – including the Republicans’ base – understand just how bad an idea it really is.
The pols have to feel pressure, or we’ll lose fights on issues again and again.
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masslib December 15th, 2010 at 6:45 am
80
In response to Knoxville @ 78 (show text)
But every single time the pols play us on the issues. Financing campaigns hasn’t helped liberals one iota. Of course you pressure the pols, but liberals have been too knee jerk happy to shower a politician with love for talking the talk before seeing if they will actually walk the walk.
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syborg December 15th, 2010 at 6:45 am
81
Its just like the Consumer Product Safety Commission, who wont set limits on cadmium, instead letting industry police itself. Our representatives tell us that yes, the tax cuts for the rich, like cadmium, are really bad for us and will probably give us cancer, but there are people that really need a drink and they can’t figure out any other way to get them water without poisoning us all with the aforementioned cadmium tainted drinking glasses…BRILLIANT!
I too have sent several emails to the people I once foolishly thought represented me and had my best interests at heart. And like many of you, have also been ignored and received no response. Today I’ll send an email to Sen. Franken, telling him I’m removing myself from his email list and that he can go piss up a rope with his best-est country music singin’ buddy, Orrin Hatch.
George Carlin seems to have had it right all along…
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masslib December 15th, 2010 at 6:46 am
82
House Democrats ready to fold:
thehill.com/homenews/house/133695-for-dems-the-tax-fight-now-is-about-saving-face
Apparently, Americans are so “excited” about the giveaways that they just have to say yes.
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masslib December 15th, 2010 at 6:52 am
83
Oh but thank goodness the supposed ice between Obama and K street is thawing:
thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/133693-thaw-seen-in-relations-with-obama
Good stuff.
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jedimsnbcko19 December 15th, 2010 at 6:54 am
84
In response to oldgold @ 57 (show text)
oldgold
that can you tell us all how POLLS that make the rich, richer always get accepted
and polls that help the middle class get rejected.
oldgold please find some polls that show how dems feel about the issues below:
1st Obama endorses the Bush agenda of spying on and killing americans
2nd Obama attacks Unions (the F! the UAW moment screams republican)
3rd Obama double downs on Bush Wars, (now they are Obama wars)
4th Obama attacks Teacher Unions (teacher unions now hate OBAMA)
5th Obama does not attack the Banks? he bails them out? (sorta like what the GOP does)
6th Obama passes the Bob Dole Health Care Bill (Bob Dole is a republican)
7th Obama kills the Public Option
8Th Obama kills Drug Importation
9Th Obama APPOINTS an insurance executive to manage his health care Bill
10th Obama does not APPOINT Dawn Johnsen
11th Obama hand picks the cat food commission to destroy Social Security
12th Obama supports Blanche Lincoln, a candidate who hates Unions, and has no chance of winning
13 Guantanomo still open for business
14.Patriot Act renewed
15. renditions continue
16. Bernanke reappointed
17. Americans targeted for assassination
18 Obama is all for sending more USA jobs off shore
19 Obama is for tax cuts for the RICH!20. Obama and the TSA porno Scandal
21 Obama freezes federal wages for 2 years
22. OBAMA TARP Funds for Legal Services for Foreclosure Victims Blocked By Treasury
23. Obama lowers estate tax for the rich
24. Obama tax bill of 2010 GUTS Social Security
Oldgold we want to compare our polls with your polls on the issues above
every dem needs to know, what they face in 2012 during primary season.
only you can save them OLDGOLD
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lefttown December 15th, 2010 at 7:04 am
85
In response to oldgold @ 57 (show text)
And I can just imagine how they phrased the question: “Do you approve of the package if it includes help for the unemployed?” Or something like that. Reminds me of another recent poll that asked if the people trusted Obama or the Republicans to solve our nation’s problems. That’s like asking if you prefer solid crap (Obama) or diarrhea (Republicans) for breakfast. (Results: Surprise. Surprise. The people polled preferred solid crap).
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klynn December 15th, 2010 at 7:07 am
86
I want to sign a petition against the payroll tax relief. I want to have payroll taxes.
My taxes will go up significantly otherwise.
I want to protect SS too.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 7:15 am
87
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.” Groucho Marx. Which makes Obama a master politician. Peace
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Fractal December 15th, 2010 at 7:15 am
88
In response to allan @ 10 (show text)
oh, believe me, he knows the WH deal is a piece of shit. His office was bombarded with faxes from 99ers who reminded him the deal does nothing for them. My faxes to him & other Dem Senators warned him Obama is dismantling the New Deal in front of our eyes: repealing a huge chunk of the estate tax & setting us up for destruction of Social Security.
Author on National Pentagon Radio this morning admitted the estate tax “is the most progressive tax we have.”
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victoria December 15th, 2010 at 7:19 am
89
Rep. Rush Holt has a good post at Huffpo in which he lays out the dangers of the 2% tax holiday. He says, and I know this is true, that once we start using federal funds to make up for the payroll tax, Social Security will be on the same financial footing as the National Endowment for the Arts. Obama and the worthless Democrats (most of them) that we have elected are going to see us all in the poorhouse if we don’t stop them.
Someone in the comments above pointed out something very true and completely overlooked by us civilized, elite progressives is that we should be following the model of the Teabaggers and putting the GD fear of god in the Dems.
I don’t think it is going to happen unless we take to the streets and misbehave. Maybe we should picket in front of our local television and radio studios. Force them to cover us or not let them in in the damn door. I don’t know how we are going to get the attention of our Reps and Senators, and spread the word about the real and present danger to Social Security if we don’t put some skin into the game.
Has it always been this bad, or have Obama and the current crop of Democrats gone absolutely batshit crazy?
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 7:19 am
90
In response to klynn @ 86 (show text)
I agree. I’d sign that petition, too. Citizens don’t know what a devil’s bargain this is. POS.
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 7:20 am
91
I refuse to watch O’Donnell and boost this administration shill’s ratings.
Jane, can’t you go on Rachel or Keith instead?
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Fractal December 15th, 2010 at 7:21 am
92
In response to oldgold @ 57 (show text)
oldgold, I haven’t looked at the Pew results yet. Wonder how they defined “liberals.” We often forget that we pay more attention to the truth and the details here at the Lake. Apparently Obama still has the “liberals” fooled.
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 7:23 am
93
In response to victoria @ 89 (show text)
Has it always been this bad, or have Obama and the current crop of Democrats gone absolutely batshit crazy?
They’ve been bought off just like Sarah Palin.
I’ve never seen it “this bad,” and I’ve been around for a long time. Believe me the RushGlennSarah’s are currently indoctrinating the Tea Partiers to ENJOY giving up their Soc Sec & Medicare. Don’t count on the Tea Party to protest it at all.
But yes: to get anything to change, we need to do much much more than just the current stuff we do, which is mainly blogging, sending letters & emails, & making phone calls. All that stuff should continue, but we do need to take it to the streets, and not in some tamed down rally like the one in Oct set up by the media to pacify the leftwing – the one that Stewart & Colbert did, which imo was a senseless waste of time.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 7:26 am
94
In response to LibWingofLibWing @ 91 (show text)
O’Donnell is part of the problem, not part of the solution. And he has been for 30+ years. Although he is well loved by his bosses the oligarchy. Peace
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 7:29 am
95
In response to dhfsfc @ 59 (show text)
That’s giving up. Vote. That doesn’t mean you have to vote for bad candidates, even if only bad candidates are running. Do what Jesse says, vote for “none of the above.” You can write it in.
Doing nothing sends no message. Doing what Jesse says sends one.
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syborg December 15th, 2010 at 7:29 am
96
In response to LibWingofLibWing @ 91 (show text)
I second that request. I won’t watch that tool O’Donnell.
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UnkaWillbur December 15th, 2010 at 7:29 am
97
In response to victoria @ 89 (show text)
I don’t think it is going to happen unless we take to the streets and misbehave.
We could take to the polls and misbehave. They don’t care about what’s moral; They don’t care about our money; They don’t care if we don’t vote. but seriously threaten to torpedo their nice little kabuki-show elections and you might have some leverage. Of course, that’s been pooh-poohed as “unserious” by the “serious” people of the blogovillage…
I just think street demonstrations are largely irrelevant in an age when the media openly does the bidding of its corporate owners and their class. They simply don’t report or under-report it, always with a “silly season” slant. Of course real, disruptive vandalism and damage would make a point, but there’s not enough progressive activists in the U.S. who have enough skin in the game to provoke the response that would generate.
What we need is activism that disrupts the core of their business-as-usual and, for god’s sake, has some passion, fire and conviction to not caving on core principles.
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Fractal December 15th, 2010 at 7:33 am
98
In response to RevBev @ 79 (show text)
Thanks RevBev. I missed this story. Carolyn Lerner nominated to be the new defender for federal govt whistleblowers. Folks at POGO and GAP wondered why it took two whole years to get somebody nominated to a vacant position.
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 7:35 am
99
In response to Bluetoe2 @ 69 (show text)
I agree with the intent of what you say EXCEPT I take umbrage at calling low information people “morons.” They are not dumb. They are low information due to no fault of their own. The plutocrats have worked hard for a few generations to deny the masses the information they need so they can make informed decisions. Instead they want to market them with manipulation, and not just in politics.
It’s not the dispositions of Americans that have caused them to be this way. It’s the situation they have been put into. It’s hard to be an energetic, information seeking researcher that thinks critically when you are exhausted from working two shit jobs to barely pay your bills, depressed because you have little hope for you and your children’s future, and worried about losing your jobs and your health care. You come home from work and just need to veg.
Don’t blame the victim.
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Fractal December 15th, 2010 at 7:42 am
100
In response to Fractal @ 92 (show text)
oldgold linked to this Pew Public Policy (PPP) poll showing “liberals” support Obama’s piece of shit taxcut bonuses deal by 65% to 20%.
The internal sample splits are somewhat illuminating: they included only 101 “liberals” causing a margin of error of 12% for that sample.
PPP gave no separate splits for support & opposition to individual elements of the deal such as the payroll tax drainage of Social Security (widely opposed by all segments in the WaPo/ABC poll yesterday), estate tax giveaway, taxcut bonuses for jillionaires, etc.
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 7:43 am
101
In response to UnkaWillbur @ 97 (show text)
I have an acquaintance who now is saying that he is thinking the unthinkable. I’m not comfortable even repeating what he is saying. This guy is not a radical or an anarchist. But he is saying that we need to target the plutocrats themselves, not the politicians they hire. I don’t think he is serious in this unthinkable stuff he is thinking about. I think he is just frustrated.
I think he’s right about whom we should target. I don’t think he is right about the unthinkable part.
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Kassandra December 15th, 2010 at 7:43 am
102
In response to klynn @ 86 (show text)
You’re right, every other tax will automatically go up
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victoria December 15th, 2010 at 7:48 am
103
In response to onitgoes @ 93 (show text)
I agree about the Stewart/Colbert rallies. Worthless. What a wast of all those bodies. That’s when they should have handed out the torches and pitchforks.
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victoria December 15th, 2010 at 7:49 am
104
In response to victoria @ 103 (show text)
sorry – waste
I think about the unthinkable more and more these days, Lib. I feel so damn helpless, but that is exactly what they want.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 7:53 am
105
In response to LibWingofLibWing @ 101 (show text)
Please suggest to your friend that the moment he/she uses violence he/she has lost. The oligarchy thrives on violence. Why else do you suppose they would keep all the best and biggest weapons for themselves and their paid military agents to use? The way to beat the oligarchy is through non-cooperation. Start by assuming that most of the information that you read or see on tv is one big fat lie fed to us by the oligarchy. Then do the exact opposite of what is suggested by them that you do. For example: the FED is our friend. Peace
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UnkaWillbur December 15th, 2010 at 7:58 am
106
Well, violence to people is never the way to go. It simply doesn’t make you any friends and, at least for me, there is a core-principle to defend there: That violence must be the absolute last resort. besides, they’ll only “gun up” behind private security and tall fences.
There are endless ways to disrupt the processes and economics of the ruling class without resorting to violence and the progressive movement have tried a not a one of them. It’s been to busy making satisfying but fruitless phone calls, writing angry but unread letters or “signing” online petitions that rarely even get printed out.
Start by disrupting their elections. Yep, divide the (d) vote in presidential primaries, depress turnout, cause losses if they don’t listen (and start recruiting candidates now from within the movement to run as independents pushing the progressive line). Run candidates that have no chance of winning, 2 or 3 in a district, whose sole job is to push the frame to the left, even if they’re destined to lose.
Punish them economically. If you want street level activism, go blockade Walmarts and banks, investment firms and Insurance companies. Don’t let them do their business as usual. organize a “Withdraw your money from commercial banks” day. Stop worrying about your credit score and your mortgage and stop giving them money.
Etc. etc. Ad Nauseum. But, like I said above, I just don’t see that there’s enough skin in the game for most comfortably lower upper-class progressive activists to make those kind of commitments. It might cost them a couple points on their mortgage, or their budding career, or whatever.
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pineywoodsfats December 15th, 2010 at 8:02 am
107
In response to econobuzz @ 66 (show text)
Yeah, maybe they woulda thought it was the stench of cash.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 8:06 am
108
In response to UnkaWillbur @ 106 (show text)
An interesting factoid this: The American Revolution was supported by about 10% of the population. 40% supported England and 50% didn’t much care which side won the rebellion. Which goes to show that it only takes the participation of a very few people to overthrow the oligarchy. Peace
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 8:14 am
109
In response to victoria @ 103 (show text)
Agree, but, as you know (I’m sure), they did NOT hand out the pitchforks at that worthless rally. It was held specifically to be a SOP to the “left,” in answer to Glenn Beck’s & Sarah Palin’s tent show revival the month before.
Bought and paid for by the Oligarchy to encourage the disinfranchised to make believe that we have any say or relevance to the running of this country anymore. It was a chimera fairy tale, EXACTLY like Glenn Beck’s bullshit…
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 8:19 am
110
In response to UnkaWillbur @ 106 (show text)
Very good suggestions. Thanks for that. Definitely something to ponder.
The ONLY reason why Tea Party “rallies” get the media attention they do is because the Oligarchs have instructed their corporate-owned fascist media to “report” on them. So it kinda-sorta *looks* like the Tea Partiers have the right idea and are gaining traction. Sadly they aren’t, though. Almost ALL of their rallies have been carefully orchestrated and manipulated by the Oligarchs – in this case, David Koch, Rupert Murdoch, et al – to say & do exactly what the Oligarchs want they say & do. I realize that the Tea Partiers, themselves, *believe* that it’s all grassroots, and that the rallies are *really* about what they believe in… but sadly, it’s all been bought & paid for by the Oligarchs. And whatever “opinions or beliefs” that Tea Partiers have are of little consquence to the Oligarchs, who are going to what THEY want to do, no matter what.
Taking it to the streets can still have value, but much less so in this day and age. I don’t advocate violence, but peaceful protest can still have a place at times.
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onitgoes December 15th, 2010 at 8:24 am
111
In response to LibWingofLibWing @ 101 (show text)
I agree that we need to shift more attention to the Oligarchy and how they are ripping us all off… playing “games” with politicians is ever more clearly becoming a mug’s game. It’s not worth much to protest to politicians anymore because clearly they are taking their marching orders for the wealthy. All the pols do is tell us “soothing” things, at best, whilst they actively strive to enrich the wealthy and powerful. THIS is not going to change, at least not by the traditional tactics of “working within the system.” The system is rigged.
I do not advocate the unthinkable, but I definitely understand why some may feel the way they do. We HAVE been royally ripped off, and the obscenely wealthy continue to rip us off even more. When one considers the obscenity of their riches, one tends to get pretty upset, to say the least. Their gluttionous greed is really out of control, and one wonders how it’s all going to end up.
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Mauimom December 15th, 2010 at 8:27 am
112
In response to ghostof911 @ 2 (show text)
Remember back during the debate/debacle on the Health Care Bill, we had a diary up here that was a chart, listing each of the “pro” points Obam & Company were touting for the bill, and refuting/showing that each was not true?
Is there a way any of the “experts” here could do such a thing?
I know it’s probably too late, but it would be useful to have this “yeah,but” or “oh no it doesn’t” list for use in calls to Congress or “discussions” with friends/family members.
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Ymhotep December 15th, 2010 at 8:28 am
113
In response to onitgoes @ 110 (show text)
Peaceful protests are fantastic. But sit-downs in public and private buildings (like banks and courthouses) and clogging up the highways by stopping your car in the middle of them (take two or three friends with cars and stop traffic in all the lanes at once) really gets the medias attention. Keep in mind that there are always consequences to your actions. Like being arrested for disturbing the Peace. Peace
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Mauimom December 15th, 2010 at 8:30 am
114
In response to ghostof911 @ 15 (show text)
Lawrence O’Donnell
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hektor6766 December 15th, 2010 at 8:33 am
115
Because O’Donnell makes me want to vomit or kick in my TV screen, I hadn’t watched the original segment. You must have edited out the clips where he lectures progressives on how Congress works and how naive progressives are.
Goodbye Sherrod Brown. Steve Driehaus will be the last Democrat I voted for. We NEED an insurrectionist movement like he Tea Party is for the right, or must move to a new party.
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oldgold December 15th, 2010 at 8:43 am
116
In response to Fractal @ 100 (show text)
Of course, I specifically noted the liberal sample was small.
There is a NBC/ WSJ poll coming out later today. The results will be interesting.
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BMcGarth December 15th, 2010 at 9:00 am
117
Look,If you make 25K-60K/yr you have no representation in the congress,it’s that simple.And if you are below that bracket you are off the radar.
You can listen to all the millionaire Senators & Representatives go on the so called progressives radio shows to mollify…er con you that they did something good for you.And they will play it like usual that the GOP don’t care about ya,truth of the matter is that the Dems don’t give a damn about ya either.
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papau December 15th, 2010 at 9:02 am
118
Was Lawrence O’Donnell gloating as he said that the progressives – the left – in the House would have to – and were – walking those “we won’t vote for the Obama tax give-away to the rich tax cut” calls from last week back into a vote for the Obama bill unchanged?
I swear he got off on his “no public option – the progressives will not hold tough” prediction being correct, and I suspect he is having the same joy with this failure of the left.
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papau December 15th, 2010 at 9:16 am
119
In response to ghostof911 @ 3 (show text)
Chavez asks the democratically elected parliament to grant him 12 months of special powers as allowed by his constitution.
Seems he is playing by the rules of law – in contrast to those in this country that stop vote counting in 2000, go to war on lies, and end bill of rights freedoms by claiming security requires that ending of rights. I don’t like rule by degree – but many democracies have that rule and we do not call the leaders dictators. But he will face opposition (read CIA/right wing US rich funded) accusations of behaving like a dictator, of course.
He has floods and 140,000 homeless to deal with during the next year, but of more interest will be the degrees issued re housing, land, finances and security – I suspect that those on the right will not like these new laws that parliament is allowing him to give birth to.
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papau December 15th, 2010 at 9:17 am
120
In response to ghostof911 @ 2 (show text)
Franken sounds just like Joe Lieberman – just replace Minn with Conn and you can easily imagine Joe sending the letter.
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jedimsnbcko19 December 15th, 2010 at 9:26 am
121
In response to oldgold @ 116 (show text)
Polls, Polls, Polls, everywhere! you are kidding right?
we have millionaires in the senate voting to cut their taxes
we have POLLS created by corporations, that are own by billionaires.
WOW!!! what are the POLLS going to say?
let me take a wild guess
The american people want RICH PEOPLE taxes to be cut
and middle class americans don’t mind their taxes going up.
you got to love the BANANA REPUBLIC that is the USA!
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Mauimom December 15th, 2010 at 10:39 am
122
Jane, Lawrence was relatively “nice” to you, and he let you talk quite a bit.
Think his MSNBC overlords gave him a talking-to? What do you think accounts for this [no doubt momentary] improved Lawrence O’Donnell?
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LibWingofLibWing December 15th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
123
Thanks, everybody, for the comments about the unthinkable. As I said, I think the guy is just frustrated.
Me? I’m committed to non-violence. I’m convinced that violence is just another “ends justify the means” type of thing. The problem is that the usage of certain means changes the users. Eventually their ends change too. This is how Anakin Skywalkers become Darth Vaders.
But I also am convinced that we need to take serious non-violent action against the plutocrats. The one that I like the most right now is workers refusing to leave their jobs when a company wants to shut down a factory. I like it that workers have occupied factories. I think we need more of this kind of bottom up action that is about fighting (non-violently) against the uber-wealthy.
I will talk to my acquaintance and be sure he is not really thinking the unthinkable.