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Post by ig on Feb 7, 2007 7:30:27 GMT -6
" At the present time we just offer the most politically stable and capital friendly to base capx operations from. " Agreed, there the US has an absolute advantage, and there is no country that looks like it will take that advantage away from the US. what is the "absolute" advantage. It is not a difficult environment to create and that position has already begun to erode. www.usatoday.com/money/economy/trade/2005-11-14-greenspan_x.htmwww.boston.com/business/articles/2006/10/26/greenspan_says_dollar_now_sharing_stage_with_euro/Emerging economy growth has exceeded US deficit growth and fortunately that economic growth has found its way back into safe and relatively liquid secondary debt markets. Capital, in all aspects of investment, will seek the highest return with the lowest risk. As risk rises with a deteriorating trade deficit position, capital will move to lower risk equally liquid positions. Maybe the Euro, maybe commodities but in any case Central Banks will continue to diversify.
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Post by LibSlayer on Feb 7, 2007 10:16:17 GMT -6
"what is the "absolute" advantage. It is not a difficult environment to create and that position has already begun to erode."
The absolute advantage is an economic term, and the US has an economic absolute advantage in political/social/economic environment in attracting investment. There isn't any country that is even close to challenging that absolute advantage.
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Post by ig on Feb 7, 2007 14:34:23 GMT -6
first an economic environment or system is not an absolute or comparative advantage.
second, I just gave you an example where that "advantage" is being lost.
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Post by LibSlayer on Feb 7, 2007 14:43:28 GMT -6
first an economic environment or system is not an absolute or comparative advantage. The US HAS an absolute advantage in the qualities that attract investment. And no because a country's economy is growing faster doesn't mean that absolute advantage is being challenged.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Feb 7, 2007 14:50:22 GMT -6
The absolute advantage is an economic term, and the US has an economic absolute advantage in political/social/economic environment in attracting investment. There isn't any country that is even close to challenging that absolute advantage. Much of this "investment," however, is not new capital equipment investment. Rather, it goes into purchase of existing U.S. assets. Much of it is simply the replacement of American ownership with foreign ownership. Certainly that's a far more "attractive" investment for foreigners than building a new enterprise from scratch. It's less risky to buy out a previously existing American company than to start a new one from scratch. It is these previously existing businesses that receive much of this new foreign investment. And such replacement of American investment with foreign investment has no positive benefit whatsoever for the U.S. economy.
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Post by LibSlayer on Feb 7, 2007 14:53:01 GMT -6
"Much of this "investment," however, is not new capital equipment investment. Rather, it goes into purchase of existing U.S. assets. Much of it is simply the replacement of American ownership with foreign ownership. "
And what do those former American owners then do with the money paid to them for their assets? Either spend or invest it, either way it benefits the US economy.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Feb 7, 2007 21:01:02 GMT -6
"Much of this "investment," however, is not new capital equipment investment. Rather, it goes into purchase of existing U.S. assets. Much of it is simply the replacement of American ownership with foreign ownership. " And what do those former American owners then do with the money paid to them for their assets? Either spend or invest it, either way it benefits the US economy. No, they either sock it away in an offshore account, buy bonds, invest in foreign production facilities (which hurts our economy) or they "invest" in Corporate lobbying for more taxpayer giveaways to get paid for providing absolutely nothing, like they're doing at present.
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Post by ig on Feb 8, 2007 6:57:18 GMT -6
i only have experience with a steel co. in detroit that was purchased by a russian co. they invest capital to upgrade equipment and improve productivity, get rid of the union, and leave the country with the profits.
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Post by ig on Feb 8, 2007 7:25:59 GMT -6
first an economic environment or system is not an absolute or comparative advantage. The US HAS an absolute advantage in the qualities that attract investment. And no because a country's economy is growing faster doesn't mean that absolute advantage is being challenged. hmmmm. feb 8, 2007 yield on 10 yr euro bond 4.03 yield on 10 yr us 4.75 is the willingness to pay more to borrow an absolute advantage? No looks like a pretty tenuous position considering the value of the US currency has tanked vs. the Euro. unless your currency is used in the transaction of a globally desired vital resource. That would make US Debt more liquid and that is worth a premium. Is that an absolute advantage? It is if you are willing to defend that position at all costs.
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Post by LibSlayer on Feb 8, 2007 8:00:50 GMT -6
"No, they either sock it away in an offshore account, buy bonds, invest in foreign production facilities (which hurts our economy) or they "invest" in Corporate lobbying for more taxpayer giveaways to get paid for providing absolutely nothing, like they're doing at present. "
Buying bonds does help the country, and no they do not invest in foreing production facilities.
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Post by LibSlayer on Feb 8, 2007 8:18:36 GMT -6
The US HAS an absolute advantage in the qualities that attract investment. And no because a country's economy is growing faster doesn't mean that absolute advantage is being challenged. hmmmm. feb 8, 2007 yield on 10 yr euro bond 4.03 yield on 10 yr us 4.75 is the willingness to pay more to borrow an absolute advantage? No[/quote] The higher rate of return attracts more investment. unless your currency is used in the transaction of a globally desired vital resource. That would make US Debt more liquid and that is worth a premium. Is that an absolute advantage? The weakening of the US currency has only made the US an even more attractive investment opportunity.
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Post by LibSlayer on Feb 8, 2007 8:23:33 GMT -6
"what is the "absolute" advantage. It is not a difficult environment to create and that position has already begun to erode. www.usatoday.com/money/economy/trade/2005-11-14-greenspan_x.htm" You do understand this article is over a years old and it still hasn't happened. And again, the weakening dollar has helped to stimulate the US economy which makes it even more attractive investment. Investors would rather invest in a country with 3% growth than with one with 1% growth.
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Post by ig on Feb 8, 2007 8:52:47 GMT -6
a weakening dollar is not an absolute advantage. so by creating another plaza accord we could attract more investment? I doubt it we export raw materials like third world nation although our raw materials are an absolute advantage. high tech exports. we lost that position long ago. If we are to be the leader in information tech I would think we could have a trade surplus in that technology. uh oh www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=105&sid=647320so we have no technological advantage. looks to me like all we have is a position as the world reserve currency. the british were certain their dominance was sustainable. it wasnt.
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Post by LibSlayer on Feb 8, 2007 9:09:13 GMT -6
a weakening dollar is not an absolute advantage. so by creating another plaza accord we could attract more investment? I didn't say it was, I said the US has an absolute advantage in attracting investment, and a major part of that absolute advantage is solid economic growth which is helped by the weak dollar.
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Post by ig on Feb 8, 2007 11:02:51 GMT -6
"what is the "absolute" advantage. It is not a difficult environment to create and that position has already begun to erode. www.usatoday.com/money/economy/trade/2005-11-14-greenspan_x.htm"You do understand this article is over a years old and it still hasn't happened. And again, the weakening dollar has helped to stimulate the US economy which makes it even more attractive investment. Investors would rather invest in a country with 3% growth than with one with 1% growth. he reiterated that position in Jan of this year. Which change will likely occur at a faster rate as a result of a weakening dollar? The reduction in the trade deficit of Goods and Services. Or the inflows of capital that top offset the trade deficit? I would say the later
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Post by LibSlayer on Feb 8, 2007 11:03:08 GMT -6
If we are to be the leader in information tech I would think we could have a trade surplus in that technology. Who said anything about being the leader in information technology? That is just manufacturing, what we are is the leader in the information age.
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Post by ig on Feb 8, 2007 11:55:51 GMT -6
Have you ever been to Japan? anywhere in Europe. Their infrastructure is far superior at supporting the exchange of information. Japan is amazing when it comes to hot spots and access to broadband.
We lag in that area and have for quite a while now. I hope you're not talking about tech storage and transfer. any country can do that and many do it better than we do.
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Post by LibSlayer on Feb 8, 2007 13:07:34 GMT -6
Have you ever been to Japan? anywhere in Europe. Their infrastructure is far superior at supporting the exchange of information. Japan is amazing when it comes to hot spots and access to broadband. " Hmmm? I have lived in: Singapore - twice, a year each time Egypt - for a year Iran - for a year Bahrain - for a year Greece - 4.5 years I have traveled in: Japan Malaysia USSR Israel Germany Italy France England You don't seem to be getting this, the absolute advantage the US has in attracting investment is the WHOLE package: Solid infrastructure - the best package shipping in the world stable growing economy - Japan/Europe's economy isn't growing anything like the US Low taxes Low government regulations Good education - the best college educated in the world Stable society Stable political system Well established, fast legal system There currently is no country that can compete on the WHOLE package, and none even coming close in the foreseable future, though Ireland is coming along quite well.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Feb 8, 2007 15:23:13 GMT -6
high tech exports. we lost that position long ago. If we are to be the leader in information tech I would think we could have a trade surplus in that technology. uh oh www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=105&sid=647320so we have no technological advantage. ig, Thanks for the link. It certainly looks like we have lost the lead in high-tech exports (as per the link you posted). " China Unseats U.S. as Exporter of High-Tech Goods
Dec 13th - 6:12am PARIS -- China unseated the United States as the world's leading exporter of high-tech goods such as laptop computers, mobile phones and digital cameras in 2004.
Data from the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Economic Development showed China exported $180 billion worth of high-tech goods last year, compared with U.S. exports of $149 billion...."
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Post by ig on Feb 8, 2007 15:56:10 GMT -6
Have you ever been to Japan? anywhere in Europe. Their infrastructure is far superior at supporting the exchange of information. Japan is amazing when it comes to hot spots and access to broadband. " Hmmm? I have lived in: Singapore - twice, a year each time Egypt - for a year Iran - for a year Bahrain - for a year Greece - 4.5 years I have traveled in: Japan Malaysia USSR Israel Germany Italy France England You don't seem to be getting this, the absolute advantage the US has in attracting investment is the WHOLE package: Solid infrastructure - the best package shipping in the world stable growing economy - Japan/Europe's economy isn't growing anything like the US Low taxes Low government regulations Good education - the best college educated in the world Stable society Stable political system Well established, fast legal system There currently is no country that can compete on the WHOLE package, and none even coming close in the foreseable future, though Ireland is coming along quite well. the best package shipping? so what govt regulations with respect to what...going public..capital formation.... WE dont exactly have the lowest tax rates in the G8 either. especially when it comes to the corporate rate. as far as growth...the main reason the US can leverage its economy relatively cheaply is the fact that it is the global reserve currency.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Feb 25, 2007 13:28:46 GMT -6
You really need to do some research if you are banking on the information revolution to keep our economy going. judes, I missed the CounterPunch article under " research" in your post when I first read it. It's by Paul Craig Roberts and it's truly outstanding. It pretty much sums up the whole argument against outsourcing, using facts and figures, instead of here-say, opinion, and spin. It's titled The New Face of Class War in America. This is the 1st time I've seen Roberts refer directly to a "class war." As usual, he's right on target with every single point he makes. I'm going to repost the link and part of the article as a separate thread. This was a great find on your part. Thanks for posting it.
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Post by judes on Feb 25, 2007 14:27:34 GMT -6
Yeah, I agree it was a good article, lots of facts and figures, it does a nice job of summing up what is happening.
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Post by blueneck on Feb 25, 2007 15:08:56 GMT -6
Another excellent article from PC Roberts - many of the same issues we discuss here summed up in one.
Yet they keep insisting there is a skilled manufacturing worker shortage.
talking points is all they have - gleaned from severe cherry picking of the real data
Typical right wing tactic - tar the opposition with extreme positions The same tactic our friend the "Libslayer" used - accuse anyone who disagrees of being ignorant and protectionist
Surreal and sad and a gravely serious experiment with the future of our once great nation. This is basically what I refer to as the breaking of the social contract that existed with the US middle class - that if you work hard, get an education and played by the rules you were assured a comfortable place in US society. The rules have been changed and they are no longer fair to the working person
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Mar 18, 2007 2:35:35 GMT -6
Another excellent article from PC Roberts - many of the same issues we discuss here summed up in one. U.S. manufacturing lost 2.9 million jobs, almost 17 per cent of the manufacturing work force. The wipeout is across the board. Not a single manufacturing payroll classification created a single new job.... Engineering jobs in general are in decline, because the manufacturing sectors that employ engineers are in decline. During the last five years, the U.S. work force lost 1.2 million jobs in the manufacture of machinery, computers, electronics, semiconductors, communication equipment, electrical equipment, motor vehicles, and transportation equipment. The BLS payroll jobs numbers show a total of 69,000 jobs created in all fields of architecture and engineering, including clerical personnel, over the past five years. That comes to a mere 14,000 jobs per year (including clerical workers). What is the annual graduating class in engineering and architecture? How is there a shortage of engineers when more graduate than can be employed?The "shortage" is the product of NeoCon-Artist math. The same rocket scientists who predicted a $500 billion+ Federal budget surplus by now. If outsourcing jobs offshore is good for U.S. employment, why won't the U.S. Department of Commerce release the 200-page, $335,000 study of the impact of the offshoring of U.S. high-tech jobs? Republican political appointees reduced the 200-page report to 12 pages of public relations hype and refuse to allow the Technology Administration experts who wrote the report to testify before Congress. Democrats on the House Science Committee are unable to pry the study out of the hands of Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez. On March 29, 2006, Republicans on the House Science Committee voted down a resolution (H.Res. designed to force the Commerce Department to release the study to Congress. Obviously, the facts don't fit the Bush regime's globalization hype. Outstanding points. This report was even a bigger pack of lies than the reasons conjured up for going to war with Iraq. Economists have failed to examine the incompatibility of offshoring with free trade. Economists are so accustomed to shouting down protectionists that they dismiss any complaint about globalization's impact on domestic jobs as the ignorant voice of a protectionist seeking to preserve the buggy whip industry "Protectionist" has become almost synonymous with "blasphemy." Personally, I don't see any negative connotation to the word at all. The government is supposed to be "protecting" U.S. citizens, and protecting their jobs is an important part of that "protection."
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Post by blueneck on Mar 18, 2007 19:09:29 GMT -6
"protecting the buggy whip industry" would be a valid argument if we were actually trying to protect obsolete industries and technologies. But this isnt the case, some of the fastest growing offshored industries are the so called "high tech" industries - electronics, semicon, telecom, computers, aerospace, medical etc, decidedly not buggy whips. What stings even more is that these were exactly the sorts of jobs the globalists promised would remain on shore.
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Post by judes on Apr 5, 2007 17:00:28 GMT -6
Just thought I'd post an update on the flow of good paying "information" jobs going out of this country. Hey where did our freind libslayer go anyway? These are some of the jobs he was saying couldn't be outsourced. 650 salary finance jobs being outsourced to India, while the Americans currently doing those jobs are being kicked to the curb. And so it goes...... where will it end? Good thing I paid my way through 4 years of college to get an engineering degree....NOT! www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070403/UPDATE/704030457/1148/AUTO01Delphi to outsource salaried jobs to India David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau NEW YORK -- Delphi Corp. said Tuesday it would outsource 650 salaried jobs in the United States and Europe as part of its effort to reduce its global salaried headcount by 25 percent, or 8,500 jobs. A federal bankruptcy judge here must approve the deal, which would save Delphi $150 million over the life of the 88-month contract with Genpact International LLC and will move those positions for expense reporting and accounts payable to India, Delphi spokeswoman Claudia Piccinin said Tuesday. Delphi spent $3 billion last year to offer buyouts and early retirements to more than 20,000 hourly workers. It wants to close 21 of 29 U.S. factories. Piccinin said some moves at Delphi to reduce its salaried headcount that have not been announced publicly and thus the company is not disclosing how close it is to reaching its goal. The company has 36,700 salaried workers worldwide currently, and has added some employees, including more financial auditors, in the wake of the company's settlement of civil charges with the Securities and Exchange Commission last year. Delphi will make the job cuts over a 24-month period and must first consult with job councils in Europe.
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Post by blueneck on Apr 5, 2007 17:30:52 GMT -6
Its "funny" how whenever there are cutbacks, the bean counters are the last to go
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Post by judes on Apr 5, 2007 17:35:05 GMT -6
yup, gotta keep them books in order so the pillaging can continue under the radar.
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Post by unlawflcombatnt on Apr 5, 2007 22:56:34 GMT -6
Judes,
Thanks for the update on Delphi.
Regarding Libslayer, maybe he got outsourced as well.
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